44. Connection is Key: Foster Care and Trauma with Rachel Garrett, MS

Rachel Garret is a licensed foster parent, certified Court Appointed Special Advocate (CASA), Associate Program Director for Trauma Informed Utah, a former high school teacher and Hope Squad Advisor, and a founder and Executive Director of a non-profit. She shares various facets of life, including her journey to becoming a CASA and a foster parent, the challenges and transformations within the foster care system, and Rachel's own journey through motherhood, professional development, and self-discovery. 

Resources:

• Common Thread
• Trauma-Informed Utah
• What Happened to You? book by Oprah and Dr. Bruce Perry
• The Deepest Well by Dr. Nadine Burke Harris 
• Dr. Lisa Damour’s work 
• Imperfectly Good: Navigating Religious and Moral Anxiety to Release Fear and Find Peace by Annabella Hagen 
• Rachel’s Instagram: @rachgarrett
• Common Thread's Instagram: @commonthread_community 

Follow along on The Sad Moms Club's Instagram: @the.sad.moms.club

Follow along on The Sad Moms Club's Instagram: @the.sad.moms.club

Transcript

0:00

Hey guys. Welcome back to the side mom's club. Today we have Rachel Garrett who I'm really excited for you to learn from. We talk about a lot of different things. We talk about like her personal story of., her motherhood journey and her career and how they kind of intertwined. and let her to become a foster parent and an advocate for. Those in the child welfare system. We talk a little bit about her own. experience with script velocity, which is a. Subtype of OCD That relates to. Being Morley, right? That's more towards the end of the episode, we also talk about. Some faith deconstruction within her LDS faith. And how,, that plays into her career and going back to school and receiving her master's degree. We talk a lot about how trauma impacts the brain and impacts these kids. And just people in general. So. She was so kind to share her time with us. She has a nonprofit called common thread. She's the executive director of it. We talk about it a lot. But basically it hosts activities for teens who are in the child welfare system, or just anyone who needs more support. and I do all sorts of activities. Throughout the year to hopefully help these kids connect to one another connect to adults. who can be healthy, helpful people in their lives. I'll link the common thread, Instagram as well as Rachel's Instagram in the show notes. So you can easily access all the information that she shares. So definitely check out common thread before we get started. I just wanted to talk about the climb real quick. If you remember from last year, if you've been following me for that long. PSI postpartum support international. Does this climb every year? That's meant to bring the community together. Be a fun time and educate people on the resources we have within our area for perinatal people. That is going to be June 22nd from 9:30 AM to 1:30 PM And it's at union park. this year.

Joni: 1:55

If that is something you're interested in, I'm going to be there. You should definitely come. you can bring your kids or you can not bring your kids. You'll have a good time regardless. It's really fun to learn all about the resources. There was activities to do throughout the day. There's a silent auction with some really cool. Prizes that you would get at like a pretty crazy reduced rate. There's food trucks there. We had princesses last year for the kids that came some face painting. So it should be a really great time. And if you're around on June 22nd, it's a Saturday morning. We'd love to have you so.. I think that's all I have to say. So let's talk to Rachel.

2:28

Welcome to the Sad Moms Club. Welcome to the Sad Moms Club. Welcome to the Sad Moms Club.

Joni: 2:39

Thanks for being on the podcast, Rachel. Do you mind first just introducing yourself a little bit? Where you're from? Yeah, just like some basic things about you.

Rachel: 2:48

Yeah, thanks for having me, Joni. My name is Rachel Garrett, and I moved to Utah when I was in high school. I grew up along the western United States. And I have a master's degree in child and adolescent development with an emphasis on how trauma impacts the brain and behaviors. I am a former high school teacher a current foster parent and then executive director of a nonprofit called common thread. I'm a mother to two kids and a bonus mom to a few others. And yeah, that's a little bit about me.

Joni: 3:22

That's a lot. I was going to ask, when did you get your master's? When did you receive your master's and where from? That was something that I was like trying to figure out by like creeping on your Instagram and I couldn't find when that

Rachel: 3:32

Yeah, no, I, went back to school after I had two kids and it was During a similar timeline with the pandemic. So I did school online and yeah, I wanted uh, an emphasis within psychology, but all the different things that are going on in my life. I wanted to study more in depth the brain and what's happening in child development. So it's definitely impacted. So much of what I do as a parent, but also in my work life as well. And my undergrad is in social science teaching. And that's where I taught high school for a few years at a local school in the Alpine school district.

Joni: 4:13

Awesome. Yeah. It's like a lot of I guess are you surprised about where you ended up? You were working with teens beforehand, but

Rachel: 4:21

absolutely. I would never have guessed if you asked me 10 years ago, what I'd be doing, I would not have guessed I'd be where I'm at.

Joni: 4:28

that's really cool. when I talked to. I guess just like clients, but also friends. And they're in this stage of I want to do something else with my life. I don't really know why. And like, I think you just have to start doing things and then you find what you like and do you find what you hate? And then you can grow from there. But I, I don't know anybody who was right the first time. When they said like, this is what I want to do.

Rachel: 4:49

Absolutely. And I love the advice you give just action. If you just take one step, you'll start to get an idea. Do I like this? Do I not like this? And then opens up different doors. You connect with different people, new opportunities come in.

Joni: 5:02

Totally. Yeah. I just like that, frozen song, like doing the next right thing.

Rachel: 5:06

Yes.

Joni: 5:07

Okay. So before we dive into more like what your specialty is now I'm curious what. What growing up, what thoughts did you have about motherhood and career? I know you grew up LDS, so how did that shape your thoughts about what your future was going to look like?

Rachel: 5:25

Yeah, absolutely. So as you mentioned, growing up in a really religious environment from a young age, motherhood was at the forefront of priorities. It was just kind of a projected trajectory from since I was a young girl. So motherhood wasn't like a question mark or something that I felt like there was a choice. Yeah. So yeah, from a young age, I just knew growing up that's something that I aspired to do. And

Joni: 5:52

something you wanted at the time? Or was it just this is a, you Necessary or like an assumed step in my life.

Rachel: 6:01

that's a great question. I think because I didn't feel like there was a choice that I just never considered even contemplating what if I didn't. But as a parent now, when talking with all the different kids that I love and care for, I always incorporate that in the conversation there's no projected. Sure trajectory and that they can determine what their futures look like. But I knew, just growing up that I didn't have any negative feelings about, I'm like, yeah, that's something that I probably would aspire to want to do. And I care for other people really naturally and getting married. My husband also really wanted kids. I became a parent. I'm trying to think how old I was really young. 23, according to world standards. Yeah.

Joni: 6:48

according to like outside of Utah. That's

Rachel: 6:51

Yeah. Outside of Utah. Yeah. Yeah.

Joni: 6:54

So that was like an assumed step, but what about a career? What were your thoughts about that growing up?

Rachel: 7:01

I would say a similar, there was a similar element of motherhood is the top priority. And so I don't know if I fully had The um, encouragement to explore what my interests would be. And I think I'm doing it backwards from what most people do. I started teaching high school before I became a parent and had our first child midway into that career and then decided to step away to take care of our oldest son. Throughout this process, I guess, in my mid twenties, I started to deconstruct a lot of the different religious beliefs that I had and to reconstruct a new narrative for myself. And I've always loved education. I've always loved learning in a formal and informal setting and the academic world came really naturally to me. So it just seemed like the right next step that I started to really explore while I was a mother. What my interests were, where I felt fired up, where I felt this passion. Again, it's a different timeline than what most would naturally do. But I also love the idea of just giving yourself permission, that there's no set age or specific order that one has to do something to navigate those interests and to make those decisions for yourself and for your family.

Joni: 8:23

I think one thing that I find in a lot of my clients and it's part of the reason why I love working with them is at least within. Utah, a lot of them have chosen to have children and then recognize, oh, this isn't as fulfilling as I anticipated it was going to be. And they assure me, I love my child. And I'm like, I know you do, but I don't really feel fulfilled by this. And I think I want something else I want more with my life or more for my life rather. And One challenge they come up against is finding the time for it like their full time parent at that point. And lots of times they're relying on their spouse for income and that's just the way they've, found works in their family. But they're like now I want to go pursue something different. Or what if I want to go back to school? Or what if I want to have a job? How am I going to manage childcare? So how did you start? Clearly there's a lot of conversations with your partner, but how did you navigate that?

Rachel: 9:21

As you mentioned, there's different circumstances and fabrics that people are working within that may either limit or enable people to do different things at different times. But Being a young mother full time. And I fit that similar narrative that you just described where my partner was the primary income breadwinner. And so just having to navigate between those different elements again, I do feel really privileged that I have a partner that's so supportive of me and my aspirations and sees my own potential and, So doing online grad school was one way that I was able to do it. And I did a flex path program, I think if I didn't have kids, I would absolutely opt for in school or in person on campus. But by nature, I had two young, Kids. During the evenings after they went to bed, stay up and study or we go sometimes like the playground and I'd be, I really attribute so much. I even took one graduation picture with my cap and gown in a play. Center because I'm like this is really where I was getting some of my education because trying to be like mom wearing multiple hats and studying and writing research papers and so it looked different than what most grad students lives look like and I just accepted that aspect but I also again had a supportive partner who prioritize this for me as well. And so he would often, and similar with working, like we just tag team really well and yeah, the biggest thing for me is not burning the candle at both ends because I try to do all the things I need to do that. I want to be as a mother and also as an independent person that's not working in that dichotomy, it's just an impossible standard to be the best in both of those things without sacrificing a little bit.

Joni: 11:08

Yeah. Yeah. I think even as you're explaining, you're going to a play place and you're doing homework, like that sounds overwhelming.

Rachel: 11:17

Yeah, it's like the kids are screaming in the background. I'm like,

Joni: 11:21

I can barely process especially like you're in some like deep stuff, learning about trauma and like the brain, like that is not stuff that just comes easily, at least for most people. And so it sounds chaotic, but obviously you found a way to do it. Was there certain things you had to, you just said, I can't do this anymore, or you were more accepting of Yeah. Yeah. I guess like letting go of guilt or accepting of I'm doing what I can do and I can't do everything that I used to be able to do like how did you I just feel like I hear this a lot from women and even me. I'm pregnant with our first. And I'm like, this will be interesting, like to actually put it into action. Cause I, I don't know what it's going to look like. How did you do that? I'm sure it's like a really. Wide question. And I'm sure you felt like you did it better in some days than other days. But yeah. Any thoughts?

Rachel: 12:16

Yeah I would say, When you talk about letting go of the shame or the guilt or the pressure I don't think that I wish that was more of my reality I held myself to and still do which this is where I'm currently working on my own healing process of not holding myself to an insane unrealistic standard, but The way I showed up as a mother, I mothered as if I didn't work or go to school or those elements and then tried to be a student and also now currently work in ways that I'm like acting as if I didn't have other responsibilities because I just want to do the best I can in these different arenas. That's what I'm deconstructing now. And also trying to navigate with my own healing removing some of that intense pressure. Because it's not sustainable long term and also recognizing that by nature of picking something you have to say no to some things and so we can't do everything I'm really internalizing that more so now but during the time I think I just try to just push through And do those different things. But I was able to, because it was a short term, relatively speaking time, but now I'm seeing it's catching up.

Joni: 13:31

Yeah, it's it was a sprint at the time, but then it's like, okay, so now I actually have a job in this nonprofit. It's a nonprofit, right?

Rachel: 13:37

Yes.

Joni: 13:38

Yeah. And kids and potentially fostering or looking. Yeah. I don't know if you're currently fostering or not, but yeah. Like lowering the bar. It sounds like it would be necessary. And that sounds like lowering your expectations for yourself. I feel like that can sound negative, but it's just, like you said, you're holding yourself to this impossible standard. That's like, well, I will lose my mind if I keep doing it this way. something has to change.

Rachel: 14:07

think also One other key element is just finding something you're passionate about. If I didn't have passion towards it, I wouldn't have been able to do it. Like that excitement, that drive to want to was really helpful because there are days I'm like, this is just so hard, but because I found some fulfillment from it it really It didn't feel as challenging as I would have if it wasn't fulfilling.

Joni: 14:31

Totally. So I'm going to go back a little bit to when you were in your undergrad. What led you to want to teach and do social studies teaching? Is that right? So what led you there? What piqued your interest?

Rachel: 14:47

That's another great question. I haven't reflected on this in too much detail

Joni: 14:51

You're making me feel really good right now by saying that.

Rachel: 14:55

many years. I just haven't. Yeah. Great questions, Joni.

Joni: 14:59

Thanks. It is literally my job, so that does make me feel good.

Rachel: 15:02

I remember taking a career exploration class in college in my undergrad because I didn't know what I wanted to do. I, Contemplated pursuing something in the medical field and journalism. I love writing and just working with people. So education naturally came up. I talked to a few different individuals who had worked in different settings on the East coast that were doing some pretty cool things with youth and creating and building different. education programs. And so I just decided to pursue that track. naturally, Again, when I still was an active member in the LDS faith, I'm like, this would seem to align with parenting roles, or with being a mother and just that timeline. So I think between all those different elements, it just seemed like a natural path. I wonder now with who I am today and the big shifts I've made in my life if I would have chosen that. I'm not sure but it is interesting to see how different choices and actions have just led to really amazing places. Deep down obviously there's something in there that resonated because I'm still in a similar space.

Joni: 16:12

I feel like I had to like, kind of grieve at one point. I chose to do nursing because it was like a good mom job, which is hilarious because I didn't actually want kids anytime soon. I didn't like children I think if I didn't have that perspective growing up, if I need to choose a good parenting job what I have just gone and become a physician and I think, yes, I would have, but I like completely cut myself off from that opportunity at the start. It wasn't even something on the list because I can't do that and have kids even though I didn't want them.

Rachel: 16:45

Right, right. It is amazing. Like just like how much that impacted so many of these decisions.

Joni: 16:51

you're going to this destination. You're not even sure you want, but you're still like taking all of the turns there. And then at a certain point you realize oh, this actually might not be what I wanted for my life. And it can be hard to kind of, like you said, like work backwards, but it's possible. So you became a social studies teacher. You taught for a while. And then, I'm curious about your connection from did you said you worked in a high school,

Rachel: 17:15

Yeah.

Joni: 17:16

so working with teens there and then later on choosing to become certified as a, I think CASA has the word certification in it, I don't remember what the letters are, so like, how did you make that shift?

Rachel: 17:28

I taught high school for multiple years, and I really enjoyed working with teens, and I also loved the cognitive stimulation of the environment, just always learning, creating. I try to think out of the box with lesson plans and be really creative in how to teach a lot of this information for teens who many, I mean, class sizes were like above 30 to 40 and some teens didn't want to be there. So anyway, it was just really fun for me to just be in this cognitively stimulating environment. I worked really long days. I also coached track and cross country outside of teaching. But once I became a parent, those 10 hour days We're no longer possible with our financial situation by nature of how expensive child care is. And so I stopped teaching. I still coached for another year and brought my son and like a little backpack saddle on the front or back of me and did that. And then we moved and I missed, I just missed that cognitive stimulation. I missed those environments and working in like really fulfilling spaces. And so I looked. Into just online and like different opportunities to volunteer or or serve and I saw what a CASA was, which is a Court Appointed Special Advocate. And essentially they work with kids in the child welfare system as an advocate. And their sole responsibility is advocating for what's in the best interest of that child. You do a training and then you get put on a case. And then you spend just quality time with the kids that are on that case. specific placement case. And it's pretty minimal. It's 10 hours a month, on average, you get to know the child and you also get to know like kind of their environment with the placement that they're in school teachers, you're contacting all these different individuals to advocate for the child in court. Just seeing that whole reality and also teaching, cause I work with a lot of teens that. Did not have support at home. I just saw so many different intimate realities that I tried to support and, or just had just deep empathy for. And so it naturally pointed the direction to fostering. And that's when we determined that we would be a foster family. And we primarily take in teens because that's an age group. That is very underserved in the child welfare system. And many teens are often in group homes or Proctor homes or shelters because there's not enough homes that take in teens.

Joni: 20:05

Wow. I'm going to ask a few more questions about the CASA and then I want to move to that. How many cases did you take before you started realizing you wanted to foster? Okay, so you were convinced pretty

Rachel: 20:17

I did one case for a year. the biggest thing was convincing my partner

Joni: 20:21

Yeah, I bet.

Rachel: 20:22

Convincing may not be the right word because really you have to have, The buy in from everyone, just that, that consent or else it's not sustainable and, or it's not a good situation, but anyway, I had that one placement for a year with a teen girl and just continue to see different realities that she was navigating. yeah, something inside of me was like, I think we can do more because a CASA is a great entry point. If someone wants to get exposure and or to support, but also legally, my family couldn't be involved with this case. It was just me and this teen, but it's a great touch point for people who are wanting to give back in a really fulfilling, sustainable way, but are unsure of what they can take on.

Joni: 21:08

Yeah, or maybe don't have a family life that would sustain being a foster

Rachel: 21:12

Or work life or all the above.

Joni: 21:15

At what point, and I, I mean, this may be more of just like a historical question, but what made them realize that these kids need a court appointed special advocate? Are those the words? what was the hole that that role is filling?

Rachel: 21:30

I believe the cost of program originated in California from a judge who saw that Different kids, I think by nature of just being a child or a minor, and particularly if they're really young too, don't have the opportunity to speak for themselves or what's going on in their, in their realities. I've looked at this many years ago, so I don't know verbatim, like the exact history word for word, but it's essentially this judge saw this need of, an adult who can help support. And their primary responsibility to advocate for the child. So to gather more data, a lot of the lawyers have really intense caseloads. They see so many kids and don't have the physical time to invest all of their energy into each of these kids in the cases and talk to the teachers, talk to the therapists, talk to all these different adults and the various Cogs of their support systems to see what's in their best interest. And so by implementing this program, and it's a volunteer based program where they train adults and they connect them to different kids, but it also provides kids with a stable adult throughout their entire case process. So a lot of kids it's really transient. We'll go through different placements or different homes, but having one adult who sees through the entire case. And can support the child and advocate for the child and say, This is what I'm seeing. This is what teachers are saying cases generally end up in a better situation, and they're able to take a more effective trajectory. So it's been implemented across the country, and not all cases will have a CASA, but they found that those who do have CASAs, that it's been really positively impactful.

Joni: 23:10

Yeah, it sounds like it. When you say like a case, is it from the time that the child is like no longer in their home to the time that they're potentially placed back in their home or reunified with the family, whatever the term is? Is that what a case Is.

Rachel: 23:24

Yeah, so when a case is open through CPS and through the state, so it will look different for every child. Some may be in a kinship placement. Some may be in foster care. Some may be in the home, but then having out of resources and supports. Through until the case is completed, whether it's reunification or parental rights have been terminated and they have a different placement adoption, those different elements, but until there's like closure and some cases last multiple years, some are. It's really short in duration in a few months

Joni: 23:55

What types of activities did you do with the teen you worked with?

Rachel: 24:00

as a

Joni: 24:01

Like what do you do to build that

Rachel: 24:02

CASA when, with the pandemic. So that was unique. In that there was a lot of new stipulations and there was a lot of fear. And so I think we saw this in every single industry and those who were in home supports that they were no longer. Had access to go into those homes and a lot of families suffered because of those different elements. And this was early on in like 2020. Most of the time we FaceTimed, I went to go see her when I got permission through the caseworker. But most of the time we just did a lot of virtual stuff because. Of the stipulations early on in 2020,

Joni: 24:43

Yeah, that makes sense. this is my own struggle with teenagers. I don't know what to talk about a lot of the time. So did you guys just chat or did you watch movies or play games or she good to just talk? And I don't know if you can answer these questions. If ever I'm asking too much about her, that's fine.

Rachel: 24:59

oh so just with this specific individual, she was really great about talking other teens, there's so many different personalities and that wouldn't have been conducive for that kind of situation. And I think a lot of different other causes. Really had a hard time because of that element that it just was really difficult. So most of the time, when you're not navigating the height of a pandemic, it's taking teens out to go play basketball, go get ice cream. We have tons of classes and teens that come to common thread activities that are free, just community things, art, bowling. It's a mixture of just connecting with the kid. Or kids outside of their home environment.

Joni: 25:39

More play based, maybe? It's, sounds like even though you're connecting with these other people that are in their life, maybe separately, their teachers or their foster parents, you're there to just play. a relationship with them.

Rachel: 25:52

absolutely. Yeah. That's the main goal.

Joni: 25:55

Okay. And so while you're starting this work, you recognize pretty quickly you want to become a foster parent. And then I read on one of your old highlights that you like, created a PowerPoint to talk your husband into it. And you, like you said, not convinced, but explain a little further. I'm just curious what types of things made a difference for him? What was it learning more statistics? Was it just seeing that your heart was in this and being willing to do it in a trial period? How did you guys decide to actually start moving forward with it?

Rachel: 26:28

So for us, knowledge is power. Initially, I think he was a little bit. uncertain and nervous as anyone would be with little exposure. I had much more exposure just with the years of working so intimately in some of these spaces, but he didn't. And yeah, I think there's also a lot of negative stigmas about fostering and it's also a massive undertaking regardless of any stigma. Making that life shift as a family. And so the first time I brought up, he's like, ah, I'm not sure. I don't know. And I'm like, okay, fine. And the next time we talked about, I'm like, what if I just propose all the information and like, just show you all the things that I have learned and gathered and can continue to gather more information and just share. And he is really entrepreneurial and. And so the idea came, he's like, let's do like a shark tank presentation. Pitch this idea to me. Just tell me all the different logistics, like what this would look like for our family. And also, what the realities are in Utah. So I'm like, done. Absolutely. I will do that. So I created a PowerPoint and with all the different information, which people have still asked for me to share. And I'm like, absolutely, anyone's welcome to it. But just compiled information and what it would look like a different data points within Utah, the Utah foster care structure, the training process. again, because we were still in, this is like a year later, but still navigating the uncertainties of the pandemic and it's impacted so much of our social systems, a lot of the trainings were online, which was awesome for his schedule and my schedule. We both just have really busy schedules, but we're able to do it together because it was online, and we didn't have to navigate childcare. So we did the training. He's like, okay, we'll just do the training and we'll get all the information. And then we'll just continue baby steps. I'm like, sold. Let's do it. So we did the training together online. And that's where it all started.

Joni: 28:28

What does training to be a foster parent entail in Utah?

Rachel: 28:32

Generally there's a series that you have to take They have a trainer through Utah Foster Care that does multiple series consistently throughout a few, two months maybe? And, That's like trauma education, giving you a context of just parameters, what the expectations are. There's a home study where someone from the state comes to monitor your home to make sure you have just all the different stipulations of a fire signature, an exit route, the number of bedrooms, making sure it's a safe space. You have to do a background check with fingerprinting, it's a process, but rightfully so it should be, just to ensure that we're licensing the right families, then you get approved.

Joni: 29:15

okay. So from the time you guys went through it to the time you got your first foster child or children in your family, how long did it take? Because you can decide, What you prefer to take or what you want to take, right? What you're comfortable, like medical. Sorry. Yeah. Is that a question making sense? Like you as a family get to decide what will work for you guys. You don't have to just take anybody.

Rachel: 29:43

Yeah, I think there's this idea that when you sign up you don't have control and I mean to some extent there really is no control and once you have a placement like timeline those aspects but there are parameters that you can set within your family of the number of children. That you're able to legally have in the home and then also that you feel comfortable with. Also, you can set parameters with age groups and you can base it on just your own family circumstances and comfort. You'll get calls about a specific placement. You have an RFC who is the one kind of connecting kids to families that they feel like are a good fit. I really love our She's fantastic. She'll, just call and be like, this is the situation, this is what we know, is this something that you feel like you and your family can do at this time? Just because you are licensed to foster doesn't mean you have no say in timing of when you take placements and some of those parameters.

Joni: 30:38

So how long did it take for you to have your first placement after getting trained?

Rachel: 30:42

But, it was pretty quick.

Joni: 30:44

Okay. That makes sense. Especially if you said teens aren't getting placed a lot of the time.

Rachel: 30:50

we actually did respite right when we got licensed, which is providing support for other foster families. So those who are children in care legally have to go to other foster families, like if a family goes on vacation or like works or whatever that another foster family that's licensed and goes through that whole process. Is the one watching the children.

Joni: 31:11

How long was that for?

Rachel: 31:12

We watched the kids for two weeks, I believe. And they were younger. It was a younger sibling group. And for me, that was kind of like, okay, I think, I think we've honed in on some of our parameters and like wanting to gear more towards an older group by nature. We had two really young kids at home and just with our family situation and dynamic, it was a lot to have all the kids of the same age

Joni: 31:38

So that was your first touch point. And then you've had some foster kids for like, you guys were the primary family. It's hard to put into words, like a whole experience, but how did that compare to your expectations of the experience and what was hard and what was wonderful, just a few thoughts would be great.

Rachel: 31:57

I would say fostering is life on steroids. It's all the feelings. It's all of the things I mean, It just, it transformed my life. fostering is what really has just like shifted my life in. Almost every category because it's, it changed my perspective on so much is happening within systems and politically. It's humanized so many things that have been othered in our society. And also I just have built relationships with these kids that I love and will have in my life, hopefully forever. So we've been a part of multiple reunification processes, which means that we receive a placement and we just work until the family is able to get the supports they need for the child to then. Be approved to return back home. So we are still really heavily involved though, with a lot of the teens that we've had in our home. By nature of this reunification process, there's a lot of grief. I've felt that has been unexpected. I think the thing that's been most unexpected for me is I find that it's almost harder after reunification. And then during the process,

Joni: 33:05

come,

Rachel: 33:07

after a teen has been reunified, Or a child's been reunified. Oftentimes, all of the support that the state offers with the therapists and home checks, all those things just disappear. gone. I felt, and even some of the caseworkers that we've had, I don't even know if they're caseworkers anymore. I know there's high turnover. It's a really difficult job. And talking about high caseloads, like a lot of these caseworkers are just drowning because there's not enough support within the system. But I think a lot of these families, a lot of the realities don't just disappear and the generational trauma, It's not eradicated because of a few months of support, so I think there's some elements of just deep grief of like not knowing how to show up and because they're teenagers, they, teenagers are able to call me, contact me any time of the day. I think if we were navigating this reality with younger children, you defer to parents for that communication, but teens can just tell me what's going on, or I just get Put in different situations in the middle of domestic disputes or doctor's appointments And I love these kids so much and want the best. And so I'm trying to figure out how to be a parent, but also I'm not their parents cause I want to give their biological families that space to do that. So it's just like such a weird, hard dynamic of how to provide the support. And there's grief when. You see the gap, the disconnect of what could have, I, I don't know, there's just so many layers.

Joni: 34:31

It sounds like these. Teens can say, Hey, this is going on again. Or tell you really what the problems are. And then I feel like the helplessness would be hard. I can help you, but only to a certain extent to be able to empower your parent and not feel like that they can't do their job. But also I want you to know I'm still here for you, but I can't be here for you in the same way.

Rachel: 34:54

Yeah. Like how do we partner? And that's, I think something so critical with fostering is always building relationship with the family, with the parents. I try so hard to partner with the parents. Cause I'm like, I just want us to be on the same page. I'm on their team. I want this family to succeed. I want this family to. To do well. And so figuring out what that looks like. But also not being the go to crutch so to speak there have been many times we've been in emergency rooms and I legally don't have the power that I did before to sign anything. So it's so key to partner with the family so that everyone's on the same page and the kids can get the adequate support that they need.

Joni: 35:31

It sounds just like your heart is being torn up. and, really you're building these amazing relationships, but in this really difficult context that doesn't, it's not clean love at all. It's very messy, messy love.

Rachel: 35:48

Yeah, there's no binary. Very rarely. Is it just like a yes or no, right or wrong? It's just so complex and there's so many layers that's where I think it's really transition me into this advocacy role because I see how systems are failing families. And if we care about kids, we need to care about their families. If we want kids to, to have the support they need, we have to care about the family support. discrepancy in that.

Joni: 36:12

How did having other children in your home impact your family as a whole? Like your family unit?

Rachel: 36:21

It's been so beautiful, honestly. I have a nine year old and a six year old, and we have such a unconventional family dynamic and like when we're out in public, people are like, I'm not even sure what's going on over there, but it's just, it's been Beautiful for our kids to see and to connect with older kids. I think they feel like they have older siblings that love and care for them. And also just the exposure. Between fostering and also religious deconstruction and this reconstruction and learning that we just are open and transparent about learning and different realities like age appropriate conversations, but our kids have. And so it's it's really interesting to be able to see different realities and are aware of this, just what's going on in society. And also they've been exposed to really amazing different perspectives that I and their dad can offer them different languages different interests. I think a lot of times people really focus on the negative aspects, but I really just lean into so many of the positive. It's just been so transformative for our kids and for Carson and I on the other flip side, I think the thing that transformed for our family is just the push and pull of just particularly for me, maybe more so than Anyone else in the family dynamic is just trying to care for a lot of people and a lot of other families and because we have this unconventional family dynamic, adjusting to some of those realities.

Joni: 37:50

Have you felt compassion fatigue at different points?

Rachel: 37:54

1000 percent when I learned about secondary traumatic stress, I was like, Oh, I felt that far long before I knew what it was.

Joni: 38:03

Yeah, I think it would be hard to hold space for that and maintain compassion and not become jaded and remain hopeful. That would be hard.

Rachel: 38:15

I validate that sentiment because it has been difficult and I definitely feel a lot more rage and more pessimism with regards to society and systems because I'm like, we are failing people and I see it every single day between all these people that I love and care for and also in the non profit space. Hundreds of other families that I just seeing everything in real time is difficult to hold space where when it just seems like there's so many factors at play that aren't supportive.

Joni: 38:45

Yeah. Do you feel like a lot of it, we can talk about this a little bit more in a minute, but like the weight falls on you, like even though it's a systemic issue, do you feel, I guess does the rage come from feeling helpless? Does the rage come from I know I can do more if I was in the right position? Is it just rage towards everything?

Rachel: 39:08

You have great questions. I would say maybe twofold. One, the rage is coming from the disconnect in the leadership versus lived experts. There's such a discrepancy and a disconnect between those who are making policy decisions, those who have primary access to funding, and what's really happening, and the people who are most impacted. I think if we can bridge that gap, we'll find more effective solutions. interventions, more effective solutions. We just need to center the lived experts far more than we are in our society. And because we have funding and we have so many people, we live in a state where we have like thousands of nonprofits. We have thousands of people who want to help and want to give back, but sometimes we're not doing it in the most effective way because we're disconnected from what's really happening. So I think there's that layer. And then the other layer probably is this burnout of just It's not sustainable to rely on individual people. it's not sustainable rely on the one, I mean, we need to do this collectively. And so sometimes it feels like shouting into the void of like, we care about children in the state. I know we do, but why is it just some children or why is it not in the ways that benefit more children?

Joni: 40:18

Yeah, that's so frustrating. Yeah, I have more questions about that, but I want to I just have a lot of questions for you. So they're taking a circuitous route. So through your master's and I'm guessing the education you had as a CASA and then personal experience as a foster parent and that training I guess what are things that you wish more people knew about trauma and its impact on childhood? And I know that's a huge question, but are there like key things you find that you teach a lot to people?

Rachel: 40:47

Yes. So I actually work for Trauma Informed Utah and do different presentations organizations and businesses and human service organizations. entities talking about how to be more trauma informed. One of the biggest elements I think with regards to trauma education is having a better understanding of how trauma impacts the brain, body, and behavior. I think when we have a more fundamental understanding, there's an increase in compassion and we have a determination To help dysregulated systems, because oftentimes we live in a systems where it's really punitive when we have behavioral concerns with kids or when someone's not operating in the ways that we're wanting our natural. And again, this is like just historically speaking, the natural response is a punitive response, and that's counterintuitive to what's going on within the body. When someone is dysregulated, we need to figure out how to get this child back into that, as Dan Siegel coins, the window of tolerance. How do we get a child back into regulation so that we're able to to better support them? And when we understand how trauma impacts individuals like short term, we also want to talk a little bit about. ACEs, Adverse Childhood Experiences, and how a series of chronic trauma over a childhood or lifespan, you can see the impacts in how it directly connects to our health and other outcomes you wouldn't naturally connect to trauma. I'm not even giving specifics. It's more general topics, but the biggest elements is like understanding trauma and how it impacts people. Because oftentimes we'll see that what we're experiencing is someone's trauma response that they don't fully have control over by nature of what's happened to them. And so when we can increase the compassion and shift from like, what's wrong with you to what happened to you, we're able to provide more resources that'll better support or heal some of this, these deep wounds.

Joni: 42:45

Did you like that book, What Happened to You, by Oprah and Bruce

Rachel: 42:48

Yeah, did you read it?

Joni: 42:50

Yeah.

Rachel: 42:50

I liked it because it was conversational. I feel like it, it applies some of this research into just really basic conversation. And I think the more we can get evidence based practices in common terms, I think that's going to be helpful. Yeah.

Joni: 43:05

Yeah, like Bruce Perry is more clinical and then Oprah says it in like a more like, Vibe

Rachel: 43:12

love. So Yeah! the one other element I would say is the power of connection when you're navigating trauma, healing connection is gold piece of all of it. If we can figure out how to connect Dan Siegel, also phrases like when we're talking about navigating behaviors, if we can connect, then we can redirect. Dr. Lisa DeMora talks about one of the biggest. Preventative elements for mental health concerns in youth is connection to a positive adult. Just connection is so key. I think that's why, if we can focus on how to connect with kids, that we'll have far greater success than if we figure out how to change or adjust what's going on. But connection is what I would preach. Like that's the end all for me.

Joni: 43:57

Yeah, I feel like that was a big takeaway for me. And just reading and books and doing therapy. when people start having good connections and not just with me, not as a therapist, like they learn how to have good relationships with people and how to work through problems they can start taking off. But when I'm there only like touch point one hour a week of like a healthy relationship. It's just really hard to start moving that needle and working through. What they've experienced and knowing how to have better connections. Cause the hard thing is people who have been through a lot of trauma. Tend to push people away. And so it's this catch 22 of they may be pushing you, away, but what they need most is you, At least that's my, I mean, you can correct me.

Rachel: 44:47

absolutely. Bye bye.

Joni: 44:48

How do you feel like that has changed like your personal practice in the way you talk to teens, talk to people, maybe not just teens, people, you don't understand people who frustrate you. Like, how do you feel like that? Yeah. Education changes who you are as a person in your daily life.

Rachel: 45:06

I would say in a non profit setting, all of our programs, that's a fundamental objective in everything we do. What are the ways that we can teach life skills, incorporate mental health, provide joy? It's connection, figuring out how we make connection with people. A top priority and give opportunities for that. So I would say like in that setting it's been fundamental and how we've shown up in that element, I'd say as a parent, as a person, a few different ways that I've really sought to do that. I feel like the biggest breakthroughs I've had. When working with teens is finding ways to connect with them through one what are their interests? Where do they feel excited? Hopeful. What are their favorite bands hobbies? We had two teens. It was one of our first long term placements, and they really love skateboarding. So I learned to skateboard and longboard, so I could spend every day with them. And it was showing an investment in who they are and what matters to them. That was really helpful for me to connect. And the other element is listening more than talking. And some of these conversations, I think it's so easy to want to insert ideas, thoughts, and stuff, which that's warranted, but just taking time to ask questions that you can get to know who they are and what they think and validate some of those different elements, even if you don't quite agree or it's different, but just someone feels seen and heard. We're connecting.

Joni: 46:34

It feels like there can be an urge to like correct instead of connect. do you feel like you had that urge? Maybe you still have it, but with your younger kids, before you started fostering, has it changed the way you've talked to them and the way you respond to them? Or do you feel like you just were more like naturally someone who connects over corrects people?

Rachel: 46:55

I would say maybe naturally, I generally will lean to connecting over correcting, but it has transformed how I've shown up just with everyone because of what I've known and seeing some of the success or like the cool breakthroughs with some of these kids where maybe it felt more Extreme because the realities were a little bit more extreme, but I see it with my kids too. I find I'm like, I need to take better care of myself. Cause when I'm feeling a high sense of stress or burnout, it's easier for me to just naturally like, Oh, let's not do that. Don't do that. like, okay, I need to take better care of myself. It's like this microcosm. All these different things I've learned within the research and within the foster space. I'm like, okay, this works just with any friendship with our kids creating more space. So I have that tolerance and my window of tolerance stays open and wider. And also. Just seeing if I can connect to them, then to my kids, like investing in what they're interested in. And they, and my kids happen to have interests that are really new to me. I didn't grow up interested in Pokemon or Minecraft or 3d printing and all these different things. I'm like learning because they care about it. I know it's valuable because I've seen it in these other spaces. So yes, short answer. Yes.

Joni: 48:07

Yeah, that's really cool. You said the word window or the phrase window of tolerance. Can you explain what that means for someone who might not know?

Rachel: 48:14

Yeah. So essentially when someone is posed with a really stressful experience or stressful situation, you can think of the window of tolerance is like this window when we're inside this window of tolerance, we are calm, cool, collected. We're able to have conversations. We're able to process when you're talking about therapy with clients, like being able to reflect, to To process what's going on in our life. And in a space where we feel like we have control of what's happening. When we're outside of the window of tolerance, I guess we can bump into two different categories. We can be a hyper or hypo aroused. And so hyper will look like intense anger impulsivity, lashing out. That fight or flight mode. And hypo is more of that freeze, like where we are almost in a state of paralysis, we lack energy, we're dissociating, we're not connecting that way, but we're just like shut down. And so oftentimes when we see kids, if they are triggered from a traumatic experience or just triggered in general as humans, like sometimes we can see we'll bump out of this window. And so. we try to find ways to increase that window of tolerance so that we're able to jump back in, because when we're back in that window of tolerance, we're able to have constructive conversations, we're able to see success in shifting behaviors, and a kid, again, is able to think logically about different things. So, Our windows all vary by size, I think when you have a lot of trauma or a history. of trauma, family of origin. If you've only seen parents who've modeled like a really thin tolerance to things that can be an indication of where our window sizes are, but they can always change and adjust as we practice like meditation and taking better care of ourselves and recognizing some of those elements. So that was probably more than you wanted to know,

Joni: 50:08

No, that's good. I think it's also helpful that like your window of, at least my window of tolerance can change based on what's going on in my life at the time. Like when I am really sleep deprived, I become hyper aroused way more easily than if I have been sleeping. That's just like the number one thing I think about. Being pregnant, I've been more irritable than normal about things that typically don't bother me.

Rachel: 50:32

Hungry? If you don't have food?

Joni: 50:35

Yeah, totally. There's the hangry thing. And there's all sorts of things like that. Like maybe you had a really stressful day. With your family, and then you have to go to work, and so things are bothering that usually don't bother you, and so I feel like there's I guess room for some, there's room for grace when we're not like doing great, but then also recognizing there's ways we can expand that window of tolerance, whether it's something more immediate or something we need to like practice to be able to keep it wider. Do you have books that you like to recommend to people who are interested in this type of topic?

Rachel: 51:05

Let's see. The Deepest Well by Dr. Nadine Burke Harris is really great. She talks a lot about her research with incorporating ACEs and Just a lived experience she's had with working as a physician with underserved populations and the connection between trauma and a child's well being. What Happened to You, I think, is a classic that's been really popular by nature of just the recency and, you know, It's again, pretty conversational. There's dense books, like the body keeps the score. I think is really good for some of the science elements. If you're wanting to understand some of the more neurological physiological things that are happening as a result of trauma, I do think that there's still more research to be done. It's still somewhat in its infancy with regards to applying trauma in all these different sectors and spaces, but would you recommend specific books?

Joni: 52:03

Yeah, Body Heaps of Score is the one that always comes to mind, but even me, it can be dense, like I have to take it in like chunks because it's pretty, yeah, exactly. One that helped me a lot was Bruce Perry's original book The boy who was raised as a dog, I think it was what it's called.

Rachel: 52:21

Oh, yes, yeah.

Joni: 52:22

I think I like that because, it's heavy. It's really heavy. But uh, he has a specific child in each chapter that he's talking about. What happened to them, their experience, and how that changed the way that they interacted with other people. And ultimately how connection could help or the lack of connection hurt that child. They're all extreme cases, but but they were real cases and you don't have to have all extreme trauma to be impacted by the people who are around you.

Rachel: 52:54

yeah.

Joni: 52:55

So that was like my favorite one that I've listened to a couple times,

Rachel: 52:58

That's a good one. Dr. Lisa Demore has multiple books. If we're talking about teens specifically, she specializes in teen behaviors

Joni: 53:06

Okay.

Rachel: 53:06

brain development there. So her work is really great.

Joni: 53:11

Very cool. Going back to you, I saw you post recently that, and I'm not sure if you said you got diagnosed with OCD or you're looking into an OCD diagnosis. Where did that start?

Rachel: 53:22

Yeah. So this, I feel like it could be interlaced through all of the conversations we've had with regards to burnout and perfectionism, overextending myself. But right now I'm deeply in the works of navigating the reality of Moral scrupulosity and OCD and I've exhibited different behaviors like as a child and I think growing up in a high demand religion where these different symptoms or behaviors were celebrated, it was so difficult to piece apart the unhealthy aspects because a lot of it was an internal cognitive process. So also I just throwing that out there anyone who's like a high functioning female in general I think diagnosis can be really difficult because of just the world we live in and So different elements, I think became so crippling in let's see This is before I started to foster and before I did grad school. I Had a really dark depressing it was depression, but it was to a point where it was, there was a lot of suicide ideation and I needed serious support. So that opened my eyes to some things that were going on underneath the surface that I wasn't acknowledging that I was dismissing. In this last year. It's surfaced again, as I've, I've held these different expectations for myself and these compulsions, these intrusive thoughts of mine are all centered around morals and ethics. So I saw this show up within religious contexts and also in secular contexts. It shows up differently now, but again, in the religious context, it was absolutely celebrated. And so now in the secular sense, I'm seeing it and I'm like, Oh, it just became more noticeable to me. And so I've been working with a therapist for the last few years and she also has a diagnosis. And so we were just really quick to figure out, we acknowledge a depression and anxiety from that earlier episode, we're able to see some of the other players and OCD is one of those elements for me. And It's been really liberating in some ways to find. actually started reading this book. I don't know if you're familiar with it and perfectly good. Does that sound okay. And it was the first time I was like, wow, I felt like I could have written this book without even knowing it because it was just so validating to a lot of my experiences. I'm like, did someone read my journal when writing this? But it also explains why. I have shown up in the ways I have in such an intense way.

Joni: 56:05

Yeah, totally. For someone who doesn't know, so like OCD is like this umbrella term and then there's like scrupulosity is one of them and it's more of that obsession with being morally right. And one thing, I did a training recently regarding, exposure and response prevention, which is like the gold standard for OCD. And someone asks do you have to be in a high demand religion in order for this to happen? And you don't. Some people aren't even religious. They just start having these Intrusive thoughts that they attach meaning to and then they start doing compulsions to manage that anxiety. And there's other subtypes. There's like relationship OCD. Am I with the right person? There's pedophilia OCD. Oh my gosh, am I a pedophile? If I think this there's so many subtypes, but yeah, it tends to like shift if it hasn't been dealt with while you were LDS, now it's shifting to, I'm guessing your work, your non profit feeling like you have to give, give, give, give. There's always someone that's suffering. How could I stop when there's, I don't know if that's exactly it, but that could be one way you could show up. I'm wondering when you were a kid, what types of things, like looking back, do you now know and recognize as compulsions?

Rachel: 57:08

Behaviorally like sometimes I would This is like still so new i'm just putting verbiage to it because I have normalized so much of this in my own life but like as a kid, I Would like if I touch something, I'm like, Oh, I have to touch that again. Again, it's kind of true back to this morality and worth. If I touched it, if I don't touch it, then like. I lose my power, I don't exist, or prayers, like I would say prayers and if I forgot a name, if I forgot something that was happening in the world, I would start all over again. And my bedtime routine was like four plus hours. I'd write in my journal, read my scriptures, say prayers, it just was so extensive. I just never wanted to do harm. So I always sought to do the right thing and go like 10 steps above that to just make sure that I was doing what was right and just serving in every single category I could, making sure. I just was always outward looking and how I can learn and unlearn different things. So I was pretty intense in like with some of the doctrinal aspects. be going to the temple as a teen. I'm just thinking as a teenager, I was doing all of these things that was not maybe normative of many. standard keen experiences. Like I was going to the temple at 5 a. m. before high school to do baptism for the dead, every week or like compulsively sharing my testimony because I needed to share this is what I was told is what God wants me to do. Receiving a patriarchal blessing, like that really hijacked so much. Stemming back to your question about career, that really was difficult for me because it was opposite of what I would naturally choose. I would, because of some of these elements, abandon myself in response. To following what I thought God wanted me to do because that's what I thought was morally right And so it was only until my 20s that i'm like what do I like? I don't even know. I don't think i've ever asked myself that question before and now I see it in a secular sense of like what's happening In gaza, like I will just consume all the news I just want to make sure like I have all the information and donating and i'm in the child welfare space I will Just give of myself in every single possible category to help another person, I will sacrifice any joy I have because someone else doesn't have that.

Joni: 59:33

I know someone who had a really hard time enjoying sex because they're like, how can I enjoy this pleasure when there are people who are dying in the world? So it can

Rachel: 59:41

Absolutely.

Joni: 59:42

interesting cause it's those aren't connected, but they feel so connected.

Rachel: 59:46

Yes.

Joni: 59:47

it can just impact every facet of their life. So what made you start looking into it? Did it reach a breaking point where you're like, okay, this is I need help to not feel this pressure to constantly do good. I need to be able to do some, quote, bad, or some nothing.

Rachel: 1:00:06

Like I felt immense shame just sitting down and I'm like, this is not normal. I think it got to a point where I was literally running as fast as I could figuratively, to do as much as I could. And my brain was like, it's not good enough. And that's where I think depression set in really hard again. And I was feeling really suicidal because I'm like, I can't escape this. There's no other option. But death because it just seems like no matter what I do, nothing is good enough. Nothing will ever be enough. I am not enough. I should just not exist. And I think there was just some childhood wounds that I had that it surfaced. It just got really dark, really fast. And I'm like, Whoa, the intrusive thoughts were so sharp. And I naturally process internally. Maybe I don't want to impose or make it. Or make it hard for other people. And also in my world, a lot of people are in crisis and don't have capacity. So I just pull inward. And when you have those intrusive thoughts in an echo chamber, it gets very scary, very fast because I didn't have anyone to process and I ruminate for hours about things and I'm like, my body is so physically exhausted from overextending myself and that's when I was like, I just want to die. That's where I need help. it's really difficult to say out loud as I love all these other individuals navigating really intense spaces. I'm like, but I have a house. I have a family who loves me. like, It doesn't make sense, but it's all in my head. My brain is the thing that was the scary part. Does that make sense?

Joni: 1:01:35

I mean, That is true for most people.

Rachel: 1:01:39

Yeah.

Joni: 1:01:40

Like, the brain can be a scary place.

Rachel: 1:01:43

but it's like also my favorite place. I gaslit myself. But once I learned about OCD and how it can show up in the subtype, I was like, Oh my gosh, this is so liberating because I can now. I can try and hijack the intrusive thoughts that hijack my day. I'm like, Oh, I need to move my body. I maybe need some medication. I mean, like to soften some of this and that's okay, but I don't want to, I don't want to live like this anymore.

Joni: 1:02:12

Well, A lot of it feels really wrong with the morality piece because the fix is instead of doing the compulsion, you don't do the compulsion. So instead of calling that person you had the thought about because they may be struggling, it's not calling them and then not ruminating about why maybe you didn't call them. So it feels so wrong and that's why it gets so tricky because. You're like, I'm trying to be a good person. But you're being too good of a person where now you don't want to be here anymore. Or I have some patients who've made themselves so sick with that anxiety. When I was, so I served in LDS mission and I came home and I went to BYU and I had this. Strong compulsion of any time I had a thought I thought it was the spirit and I had to do it and it became Overwhelming I couldn't get anything done. I had to go talk to that person. I had to call this person I had and I just I wasn't getting my homework done. I wasn't able to focus in class And so I finally saw one of the counselors there and he's like this sounds like scrupulosity and it really just took someone pointing it out being like This is a compulsion. This is not actually God that I was like, Oh, okay. And so I was able to kind of stop that cycle and I'd have the thought and be like, okay, I'm not going to do anything about it. So obviously it wasn't as like severe of a case where I could implement that ERP for myself, but I find that it comes up, it just plays whack a mole so it can come up in other ways too In my life. And I have to be a little bit more cognizant of challenging the things I'm afraid of and not always being this best person. So for some people that means stepping away from the church or from that religion for other people, they can still stay within the religion and, and just be a little bit more cognizant of what they actually want to do instead of just doing whatever they feel like they should be doing. So it's tricky.

Rachel: 1:03:52

It's so tricky. It's really challenging. The thoughts those aren't just straight truth that there's got to be some. Yeah, I guess with the compulsions, like the compulsions will provide temporary relief, but the more you feed into those compulsions, it just continues and in intensity for me, at least it did.

Joni: 1:04:10

No, it does. Yeah. The anxiety grows. it works temporarily, but the anxiety grows over time. And instead just learning Oh, I can tolerate this anxiety of maybe someone is hurting because I didn't do X. but I have to go on and live my life. Like I cannot I can't build my life around this fear that something might happen or I might be hurting somebody. I Think it's a really fascinating, I do see OCD and anxiety is pretty similar. But I feel like it's helpful to have a new way of approaching it because then sometimes the things we do to help manage our anxiety are actually just becoming new compulsions for us. I just think it's really fascinating to talk about. And I tell my clients that I do ERP with, I'm like, I love it. Cause I get to bully the OCD back. I get to kind of be mean. But it's so that, the OCD is not being mean to you anymore. We're

Rachel: 1:04:57

Yeah.

Joni: 1:04:59

a bit. It's fun

Rachel: 1:05:01

Yeah.

Joni: 1:05:02

not having a good time, but then eventually

Rachel: 1:05:03

I was gonna say, that goes against my nature too, I'm like, okay. But, like you said, by naming it, and just seeing how Shows up. I even just joked with my therapist. I'm like, did this whole nonprofit just, was this like a bullshit? Because like, I just, and she's you know what your brain is your superpower and so beautiful. So great. And also. When you see to be mindful of what's happening so that our superpowers and the thing that ends up like destroying us. And so There's so many amazing things. I think that have come from the weight, like the thinking process. And if it's unmanaged and for me, it was like undetected. I just didn't know. I just kept just feeding into those intrusive thoughts. And I'm like, this is to my own destruction, and with grad school, one another way it shows up I have to read every word on the page. Just make sure I got all the information if someone just texts me a question I would read like multiple research journals before I answer back just so it's full truth like i'm not

Joni: 1:06:05

too.

Rachel: 1:06:06

I'm, not teaching i'm not telling a lie or like dishonest i'm

Joni: 1:06:10

pearls.

Rachel: 1:06:11

and i'm like I didn't need to read all five of those just be like this

Joni: 1:06:16

It actually stresses me out when people ask me questions sometime. Like I had someone who reached out to me recently, an old friend who's like, Hey, I have someone in my life who's just died by suicide with postpartum depression. I'm wondering what resources I can know about to be a better support. And the question is so overwhelming to me. Cause I'm like there's so many and I don't want to miss out on any and what if they don't? And so I, I, sometimes it's good for me to force myself to just be like, I'm just going to answer. And it's not going to be full, and it's better than what they had before, but it's hard. Because you feel like you could be doing harm, and so it's a tricky one, but, and I like that you're saying it shows up in all these different ways. Even like the reading, that doesn't seem like that

Rachel: 1:06:55

Yeah, No. And I'm like doing it even in my children's books like they didn't get the full story because I missed. word. I'm like, gotta read the page again.

Joni: 1:07:06

There's this OCD therapist, That's one of her things is reading every word because she's afraid she's gonna be on her deathbed and Not have valued the time she had with her children. And so that's a really big one is like I'm taking

Rachel: 1:07:17

Yeah, yeah,

Joni: 1:07:25

thing they say, or by journaling about the things that they do. So it can show up in just so many ways. And it is totally different than normal therapy, because instead of being like, yeah, that's okay that you're thinking like being really validating, it's yeah, that might happen. You might. Hurt someone because you didn't read that one article and you just have to live with that. It's so opposite, but it's really, it's exciting because then they can start moving on with their life and they still are a good person, but it's no longer negatively impacting their own function.

Rachel: 1:07:55

Yeah.

Joni: 1:08:00

partially maybe, but also like there's good that's coming from it and now you can find a way to do it. That's. Less compulsive and

Rachel: 1:08:08

Yeah.

Joni: 1:08:09

fulfilling for you.

Rachel: 1:08:11

Yeah. And I love it. I find so much fulfillment. So like it was a definitely a blessing. And also it's done because all these kids that I love who are unified weren't receiving supports. I'm like, there's so many kids out here We don't have supports and are flying through the cracks. It just happened. It just kind of was this grassroots efforts, but it's because when you have people who care and so I'm glad my brain cares, I just sometimes wish I didn't care too much.

Joni: 1:08:36

Just needed like 80 percent caring, not 150%.

Rachel: 1:08:39

I can miss the words on occasion. I'm not the worst person alive because of something so menial.

Joni: 1:08:47

Yeah, you definitely can. There's a lot of hope with ERP and good treatment, good OCD treatment. You can get there, but it feels depending on where you're at, it can feel far off. Can you just kind of to wrap up if someone wants, I don't know if you guys take volunteers, but if someone wants to get involved in common thread, your nonprofit, how could they do that?

Rachel: 1:09:05

Yeah, so just as a preface, Common Threat is an organization that is like a community for teens 12 to 18 who have been impacted by foster care and other lived experiences in Utah. So we offer, our events are called Joining Connection because connection is so key, and we offer life skills courses and mental health resources. I guess again, it's two fold. If you know of any kids, families that could use extra support Resources. We have these amazing different resources that we've built out. We have a teen board of 15 teens who are like the pulse of common thread. Cause we always want to send our lived experts. Who helped build these different resources and programs out. And then the other element is if you want to volunteer, or donate, or host an event of sorts. We have all that information on our website. just really want to connect these kids and families to the community. If you're listening and you have an interest or desire to do something of that nature. so appreciative of peoples and their generosity.

Joni: 1:10:05

What type of events have you guys done?

Rachel: 1:10:08

We've done, it's been two years now, and we've done over 100 events.

Joni: 1:10:13

Whoa,

Rachel: 1:10:15

Yes,

Joni: 1:10:16

of

Rachel: 1:10:17

so amongst those, we've done, I guess we do a few annual ones, like back to school, we did a, Every year we have barbers, hairstylists, makeup artists, backpacks, school supplies. And the kids can come and do all those things. That's a really big one. We do holiday things because holidays are really hard. For a lot of people. And so we did those annual ones, but amongst those, we do things from like pottery or a jazz game or pickleball or art, I mean, we try and hit all different interests. So we connect to lots of different kids outdoor movie. Just all different kinds of things. We try and. And we always have an art or craft station at anything we do for the kids who want to come but feel nervous or hesitant or just need space. We try to do all of this in a really trauma informed way. We have free food at everything we do because food insecurities are a really big thing. everything we offer is free.

Joni: 1:11:21

That's really cool. I have thought that as I've seen you guys post about it, like this would have been very stressful for some young people, going to activities with this many people. So that's cool that you guys have included them in a way that they can be there, but not feel like the outskirts and feel really awkward. They can actually do something. I love

Rachel: 1:11:39

Yeah. Those who like feel nervous in social settings or if it's overstimulating but still want to participate or just are uncertain about an activity that they don't have as much exposure to try to just have things available for teens that wherever they're at.

Joni: 1:11:54

You said 12 to 18.

Rachel: 1:11:56

12 to 18. Yeah.

Joni: 1:11:58

Awesome. And then one last question. Is there anything like advocacy wise that you would want people to know about or look into, learn about to help change the systems we have here?

Rachel: 1:12:12

Oh, I feel like this could be a different podcast episode.

Joni: 1:12:17

I don't know if I have enough knowledge to have to have enough questions about that. That was my only one.

Rachel: 1:12:21

I would say Pushing for more supports within our education systems, more supports for all the adults that are supporting kids. know that's an element. There's any policies that can redistribute and allocate funds in some of these different categories. I also would say, I feel like I go on for a really long time, but being trauma informed, having organizations, even if it doesn't work with people that has anything to do with quote unquote trauma, trauma is such a predominant. Element amongst just humans being human. And so when you can incorporate more trauma informed practices and policies in organizations, it increases sustainability and support for staff and employees and decreases burnout. And for anyone listening that may not be involved in like the welfare, child welfare space, or in some of these like predominant advocacy areas, that This can be applied across the board and impact people have a lot of different trauma histories

Joni: 1:13:23

Is there any Podcasts you listen to or page you follow or something that you feel like is a good foray into that space.

Rachel: 1:13:32

a trauma informed

Joni: 1:13:34

Yeah, and

Rachel: 1:13:35

practices or just

Joni: 1:13:36

In this kind of work.

Rachel: 1:13:40

So SAMHSA is a great resource to learn all about trauma informed approach and how it can be applied I know trauma informed Utah trauma informed, Oregon There's a few different states who have compiled a whole bunch of resources Regarding these different elements and again, it's still in its infancy, so I think that those robust systems are still being built out, and there's still a lot of stigma around the word trauma in general. People usually attribute trauma to being like, capital T, or in the ICU for a war wound, which yes, that is trauma, and also being sexually abused as a child, which we know is so common and predominant, which is so unfortunate, or, all these just different elements that we. aren't considering classify for those intense supports as well.

Joni: 1:14:27

Absolutely. I've found in like, kind of like going back to what we were talking about in the beginning, if there's something you're interested in, finding one person that's interested in it, or like volunteering somewhere can just start building those connections in that area. Starting to learn a little bit reading news stories about, this type of stuff, just any starting point is better than just being like, I don't know where to start. So I'm not going to start anywhere.

Rachel: 1:14:52

Yeah. Even just Googling. I feel like nowadays there's so many, I know people use chat, UBT. It's what is a trauma informed approach blank? And it'll compile some information.

Joni: 1:15:02

that's good.

Rachel: 1:15:03

the scholar section, if you'd like, that's my moral OCD coming out.

Joni: 1:15:08

Yeah. Ah, I love it. Okay. Well, That's all have. I mean, I think I could talk a lot longer, but our time is up. So thank you so much.

Rachel: 1:15:20

Thank you for having me.

Joni: 1:15:30

thanks for spending some time with me.

Rachel: 1:15:32

thank you.

1:15:32

Welcome to the Sad Moms Club. Welcome to the Sad Moms Club. Welcome to the Sad Moms Club.