The Sad Moms Club
A podcast to connect Utah women--especially those who are infertile, pregnant, or postpartum--to the local maternal mental health resources available. I interview providers around Utah to help bring therapy tips and coping skills conveniently to your ear-holes.
The Sad Moms Club
35. Becoming a Mother with Rosie Card
Rosie Card is a local Utah mother, activist, and business owner. She talks with us about her experience of becoming a mother. It starts with her freezing her own eggs as a single woman, trying to conceive with endometriosis, how she felt during her pregnancy, starting on an antidepressant, the birth, and how life has changed since having her son. We discuss how things have changed for her since she had her son: personally, professionally, and relationally. Thank you to Rosie Card for spending time sharing her story.
- Rosie Card’s Instagram: @rosiecard
- Card Wear Instagram: @card.wear.co
- Card Wear Clothing Website: https://www.cardwear.co/
Follow along on The Sad Moms Club's Instagram: @the.sad.moms.club
Follow along on The Sad Moms Club's Instagram: @the.sad.moms.club
Hey team. Welcome back to the sad moms club. Today we have Rosie card who is a local Utah mother, an activist, and a business owner. I specifically asked her to come on the podcast because I remember her posting sometime over the last year. That she started on an antidepressant during pregnancy. And so I have followed her for a long time and she's pretty transparent. And I thought that her story could be helpful to a lot of people. I don't really know how to describe her. So I was looking at her Instagram page and in the bio section, it says girls stuff, politics, products, religion, current events, and hyper fixations. And actually says hyper fix actions. I'm just noticing that. So I don't know if that's on purpose or not. Maybe it's a play on words. Anyways, she owns Card Wear, which is an online clothing store. But today she talks with us about her experience. Of becoming a mother. Um, It starts with her freezing her own eggs as a single woman, trying to conceive. With endometriosis, how she felt during her pregnancy, both physically and emotionally. Starting on an antidepressant during pregnancy. Her birth story. And then how life has changed since having her son. we talk a lot about anxiety throughout this episode. And if you've been around here for a minute, you may recognize. And some of what she says that anxiety cycle playing out a little bit. So I just want to briefly go over it so you can kind of notice it in some of what she talks about and we discuss intrusive thoughts very, pointedly And the anxiety cycle. You have a thought. some kind of intrusive thought. So perhaps that is my baby is going to really be hurt. If I let someone else watch them. And then you determine that thought as meaningful, like that could really happen. And this of course increases your anxiety and then you do some kind of compulsion to manage that anxiety. So perhaps that is avoiding leaving your baby with someone else. Maybe it's reassurance seeking. When you do leave your baby with someone else, you call in multiple times, or you ask your partner multiple times, like, do you really think he's okay? Do you have a bad feeling at all? It could be something more, like obvious, you're checking the baby monitor or like a nanny cam or something like that over and over and over and over again, to make sure that they're breathing. and that nothing's bad is happening to the baby. So. All these compulsion's they work. They manage your anxiety, but only temporarily. It will. Bring on some relief decrease that anxiety. But the problem is whenever you engage with these, compulsion's it negatively reinforces this cycle. So then next time that thought comes to your mind. It's easy to start kind of diving into the cycle again. And so I think Rosie does a good job of explaining for her, how she has navigated these intrusive thoughts and, Recognized and not fully play into them. Like it is so easy to do. Just thought I'd point that out. And then I completely forgot to ask her at the end. About, like what she's working on now and connecting you guys to her work. So I'll be sure to link her Instagram as well as the link to her clothing store in the show notes. So if you would like to check it out, you can. and I think that's all I got. So let's get started.
Theme Song:Welcome to the Sad Moms Club. Welcome to the Sad Moms Club. Welcome to the Sad Moms Club.
Joni:Thanks for being on, Rosie. I'm so excited to chat with you. Do you mind for people who don't know you just introduce yourself a little bit?
Rosie:Sure. My name is Rosie Card. I am a new mom. I have a 1 year old. She just turned 1. I started a business. I started with an LDS temple dress company about 10 years ago and that led to me being more online and doing more with my personal Instagram account. And I'm not so much doing that temple dress company anymore, but I just spend a lot of time on social media more than I should. And yeah, I just I'm really passionate about advocacy for women's rights and the LGBTQ community and just women in general, especially.
Joni:Yeah. It really morphed over the course of 10 years,
Rosie:it has. It's it's been really interesting.
Joni:That's cool. We're gonna talk about your motherhood story journey um, today. Before you ever had a kid, before you ever were, like, actively trying to have a kid, what ideas did you have about motherhood?
Rosie:When I was really young, I feel like I babysat more than any human being should babysit. But I was really motivated. I wanted money. I wanted to buy things for myself, and I wanted to pay for ballet lessons. So I spent a ton of time working, babysitting. And I honestly, in my twenties, was like, I think I burned myself out. I am not I don't have the same drive as a lot of my friends. When my friends would be like, oh, I just wanna be a mother. That never was my thought. I knew in general, I knew I wanted to have kids. I knew that would be important to me, but I didn't feel this huge drive. And in fact, as we got down to the final days, it made me really nervous. And also by Utah standards, got married late. I got married in my early thirties. And there reached a point in my late twenties where I was like, you know what? I may not have that opportunity. And so I don't want to even think about it too much because it felt like getting my hopes up up or planning a future that didn't feel in my control. Granted, there was a time where I was like it is in my control. I could always get a sperm donor and it would be fine. So I was all over the place anxious about it. Is that even gonna be something in my life? Is that something I really want? I worked through, like, all those different avenues.
Joni:Yeah. That is more unique in our community. I felt similarly. I wasn't excited to have a kid. Although, I didn't babysit a lot. I just always would come home from babysitting as a kid and be like, this is terrible. I kinda hate kids.
Rosie:No. Totally. Like, I would have friends that just would be like, oh my gosh. My nieces and nephews are my world. And I love my nieces and nephews. Don't get me wrong. But I sometimes look at my sibling and be like, wow. You have to spend all of your time with this person, and they're a nightmare right now, and that sucks. So I'm relieved I'm not.
Joni:Yeah. I totally agree. So what changed for you? When did you decide I mean, it sounds like it was kinda in the back of your head, but, like, when did it start shifting? Were you like, okay. I think I'm ready to have children. I guess there's also this piece of you froze your eggs. So there was some point where you were thinking about it before you met your husband.
Rosie:Yeah. Totally. I was. I, In my late twenties um, had the procedure where you get diagnosed with endometriosis. And I went through all of the testing because I was like, you know what? I know despite my nerves and the things that don't look appealing to me, I know at some point I want to have a child. And I um, um, was more and more open to the idea of doing it on my own. Not at that time, but I just wanted to like, preserve my chances. And with the endometriosis diagnosis it looked like 1 of my tubes had been destroyed in the surgery. They weren't able to say for sure, but they were like, yeah. Probably this is gonna be, like, tougher for you. And they did the test to what is the test where they check for the protein? Obviously, they can't measure the exact amount of eggs, but they measure the protein around the eggs to figure
Joni:Oh, it's AMH.
Rosie:yeah. And I had an exceptionally low count. And so the doctors I was talking to were, like, you know what? If you do try to get pregnant, you probably will need to go the IVF route. And your egg levels, you should want to try to preserve what you have now. And so how old was I when I did that? I think I was 30 years old. I went through the beginning stages of IVF of freezing my eggs, and that was a wild, wild experience.
Joni:I just went through an egg retrieval as well. Yeah. I also have endometriosis. It's like 10 percent of women, so so common. And I bet it's even more because women are just like, this is just a period, and it's terrible, and I'm just suffering, but that's what Everyone
Rosie:die once a month. Yeah.
Joni:Yeah. egg retrieval was it more the actual retrieval process? Was it the shots for you? Was it the recovery? What was hard?
Rosie:For me, I think the hardest part was the loneliness in it. was hard to go to those appointments and see all couples in there and be by yourself. And I had like, you know, you on a social media, videos of people their spouse giving them the shot and that kind of stuff. And so I had in my mind that's what that media who had publicly shared about her experience freezing her eggs as a single individual. And so I didn't really have a lot of examples or like, people to look to for strength. So that initially was really tough. I Because of my low egg count, I didn't have any of the side effects that lots of women do when they have 30 eggs. I had 8 follicles, And it ended up with 6 eggs. So I literally that night was a bridesmaid in a friend's wedding.
Joni:No.
Rosie:I had the procedure in the morning and was at a wedding in heels that night. It was I did not have that physically hard other than the moods the emotions of it. But on the flip side, it also was probably 1 of the sweetest things because I opened up about like, this feels so lonely to me. And I still get emotional talking about it today. The women who were complete strangers, of course, my friends were wonderful, but the complete strangers who just came out of the woodwork. And there were women who had figured out because when I was posting what time I was giving myself shots every night, and they would message me every night before saying I'll FaceTime you if you want. Or I'm here. I'm thinking about you. I'm saying a prayer for you right now. Complete strangers. Just were so sweet and so supportive, and I get chills thinking about. So it's was 1 of the harder things, but also 1 of the sweetest things.
Joni:I also got chills why you're saying that. I think that's 1 of the powers of social media. Social media, I it's both. It's poisonous and terrible, but also incredibly connecting, and there's just so much love there. Yeah, I've found some people here in Utah who are, like, going through similar IVF steps that I am at the same time. And they check-in and they get it, and it's really incredible wonderful people can be when you give them the chance. Not everybody, but some people. So that was in your were 30 when you froze your eggs. And then tell me about from there to, like, when you decided to actually try to conceive.
Rosie:Yeah. So I met Kyle, know when a couple of years, maybe a year after that. No. No. No. No. I lied. The first day that Kyle started following me on social media was the day that I posted that I was like, my shots had arrived in the mail. So Kyle
Joni:I didn't know that's
Rosie:Kyle yeah. I that's not how I met him. We were introduced through friends, but he I was introduced to him a couple days prior, and he followed me on social media.
Joni:0.
Rosie:was like, oh, okay. This is happening. And he felt like he was like, I don't know. I just he didn't watch a lot of it because it felt like, too invasive, which looking back now, I'm like, yeah. I was showing very vulnerable things, and I am so grateful that he did that because for how we were meeting, it would be a little bit odd to start off with.
Joni:Yeah.
Rosie:But he was so sweet and sent me a message on the day that I had the the procedure. And he was living in another state when we were introduced. And so on our first date I still had bruises on my stomach from the whole process. So that's so funny. I forgot that we met right at that moment. So then we dated for almost 2 years, got married. And and we just knew like, I'm in my mid early thirties, and he was in his late thirties. We didn't have the same timeline that we would have probably chosen if we had gotten married younger. We waited a few months and then started to try to get pregnant. And we tried for a few months and my doctors had told me yeah, typically we do the thing where we say try for a year, but given your medical history that we know and your age we can just start at any point. So we actually found out that we were pregnant with Stewie the week of our first IVF appointment. Because we tried for a few months, and then we're like, okay. Let's just start the IVF process. And we're just so grateful
Joni:That's amazing.
Rosie:yeah.
Joni:So you tried for a few months, and then tell me about your pregnancy. We can talk about it physically, but also mentally.
Rosie:Yeah. Physically was really tough. I was really sick for about the first 22 weeks. And I have I always forget the name. The condition where your obviously, your ligaments are softening. Is it pubic symphysis?
Joni:Yeah. That's a thing.
Rosie:where your ligaments are softening too much. And so from 9 weeks on, it was immensely painful to walk. Any movement was so painful. So I wasn't on bed rest, but I was, like, moving as little as possible because I was in so much pain. So that was not fun.
Joni:Yeah. And that lasted the whole pregnancy.
Rosie:Yeah. The whole pregnancy. it was yeah. I just we would like to have another child but thinking about that pain again, I just makes me sick to my stomach. And really hard because I feel like my recovery has been harder because I was immobile for basically 9 months. I feel like I am having, like, a pretty difficult time because my muscles, it's amazing how much I feel like I atrophied over, like, not moving.
Joni:Do they recommend like, your OBGYN or whoever you saw? Did they recommend any treatment
Rosie:there's not much they can do. I did weekly physical therapy the whole time, which helped, like usually, I would go on a Tuesday and Tuesday, Wednesday, and beginning of Thursday, I felt a little bit better. But my 2 sides of my pelvis would always just shift out of alignment, and then I was just stuck until I went back the next week. And there were, like, little exercises I could do at home and I was terrible at doing them at home because I had to get on the ground to do them. And I was like, it's too painful. I can't get on the ground and then getting back up is too painful. So that was tough. And then mentally, I would say, I realized, like, I knew it was hard. I feel like I'm very aware of I have kind of like no shame in saying I'm struggling and I don't feel like I have to pretend to be happy or a superwoman or anything like that. I was kind of, like, avoiding now that I look back, I think I was avoiding getting on medication because I had heard that oh, it's so hard to get off of it. And I just was kinda scared of it. I just felt anxious about it. And I realized, so I had Stewie. I was due in January, but I had him in December, and I it would have been, like, the beginning of November. So maybe when I was, like, 7 months pregnant, 6 or 7 months, I realized like, every single day, I am so sad. I can remember what intersection I was in driving to work and just was like, oh my gosh. Like, I just didn't realize how it had crept up on me. So I had a few, maybe like, 5 days randomly through the pregnancy up until that point where I woke up and was like, I am at a negative 50. I'm can't get out of bed. I'm so depressed. I am miserable. But it it just felt like it was, these random days that were really, really hard, and I would stay in bed. And Kyle was great and took care of me. Um, But I didn't realize that at the same time, my base level that I was at was dropping consistently. And so in November, there was this day where I realized woah, I'm pretty much dark every single day. So I talked to my therapist and expressed my concerns and nerves around taking something. And she is wonderful and just talked to me. I'm trying to think of the word that she used to describe Zoloft, but she basically was saying it's a very beautiful, simplistic drug. And you're gonna be okay. You're not gonna be addicted to it. You're gonna, like it might be hard to get on it and get off of it, but you'll be fine. It's gonna be okay. So I went and I talked to my doctor and explained it to her and she just said, look, you on 1 hand could be totally fine and not need it. But having the baby is a huge emotional moment, And I'm worried that if you're just kind of, like, holding on to the edge right now, that experience might totally knock you off. And it's a lot harder to come back from like, rock bottom than just kind of stabilizing you right here. And that was a really helpful thing for me. And I started with the smallest dose. I was, like, biting the pill in half and taking. And I was like, I don't think I'm really feeling anything. And I told my therapist, and she was like, yeah. Because you're not really taking
Joni:You're, like, licking it.
Rosie:She was like, you actually need to take it. So, I started taking my full little pill, still small. And the transition on was really hard for me. Those first 2 weeks, I definitely I and I was warned about this ahead of time, so that's great. I definitely got worse. And I feel like at like day 10, I was it was dark. And I reached out to my sisters and luckily my friends were like, rallied around me and were, like, it's okay. This is just the process. And luckily by the time I had Stewie, it was kind of, like, normalized and in my system and starting to benefit from it. And, yeah, I've just been on it ever since.
Joni:That was definitely the right call to get on it before because the sleep deprivation that follows and then just feeling like you're learning this new human, you're learning how to breastfeed, you're learning how to yeah. All of that. Yeah. I think that was really wise of your doctor to say that.
Rosie:Very grateful.
Joni:And it is so hard to make up. If we can get you ahead before you have your baby, you're gonna do so much better than oh, I actually think I wanna kill myself at this point. It's okay. We have a we a lot of work to do to get you back to Have did you experience depression before you were pregnant?
Rosie:I have had when I was young in high school, I definitely was experiencing depression, and I have had periods where I was in like, a bad place but never anything to level where I was, like, diagnosed or taking anything. I just stuck with it in therapy, for better or for worse. Of course, you wonder if taking Zoloft sooner would have been helpful or something would have been helpful. So I wasn't completely a stranger to it.
Joni:you more of like, an anxious person or more of a depressed person?
Rosie:In in just for sure.
Joni:Okay. Okay. I love Zoloft for people who are anxious because it works on a specific receptor that's good for ruminating thoughts. So if you're someone who like, spirals about things
Rosie:Oh, yeah.
Joni:it like, specifically works on that. see a lot of anxious people be like, this is how normal people feel? How was your anxiety during pregnancy? Were you anxious about Stewie? Were you anxious about your, I don't know, work, your health? Did that show up at all?
Rosie:Um, I would get really anxious about him in between appointments, especially before I could feel him. And I feel like I started to feel him later than what I thought I would. But I am so fortunate because Kyle's uncle, so my husband's uncle, He's retired now, but he's an OB GYN. And he was so kind and just I had an open door policy that I could go in, and he would give me a scan if I needed 1 to check on him. It was so nice. We only took advantage of it a couple times. But we also had is it something called velamentous, the cord attachment to yeah. So our cord attachment to the placenta, they're supposed to be, like, in the middle. And Stewie's was, like, more towards the edge. It wasn't like an extreme case of it, but it was enough where we had quite a few more like, similar to the 20 week scan. We went in and did that kind of 20 week scan, I feel like 4 times. Because they wanted to check on it because if it gets to in a more extreme case you have to do a c section because the cord can detach from the placenta and it can be dangerous. We got checked a few times extra
Joni:Oh my gosh.
Rosie:fair amount of times and that helped with my anxiety for sure.
Joni:Yeah. That's really nice you have that hookup. Any other places where you found it came up or just, like, increased baseline anxiety?
Rosie:In relation to my work was also pretty stressful. I've listened to a lot of other female business owners talk about their experience working through maternity leave, Jenny of Fawn Design comes to my mind because she's really talked openly about with her first kids, she really didn't take a maternity leave. And it was really hard and she wanted to do it differently for the daughter that is now a little toddler. And I really wanted to take a true maternity leave, but as a self employed individual, it was like, how in the world am I gonna do that? And I've thought about that since day 1 going full time on my business. so the summer when I was pregnant, I had 2 full time employees and a part time employee. And I was like, you know what? We're good. I got this team. We're gonna be all organized and set up, and it's gonna be fine. And both of my full time employees got wonderful new job opportunities that summer. And so
Joni:yay for them, but
Rosie:I was I feel like, genuinely was so happy for them, and I was like, what am I going to do? Plans shifted, and I just decided you know what? I am just going to I'm almost gonna wind things down preemptively. Because I'm dedicated like, I'm going to take a maternity leave. I didn't publicly share that I was pregnant, so I just put on my website and kind of told people like, I'm taking an extended creative break. And so shipping is gonna be slower than normal and bless my time employee's heart, Molly. I just paid her to stay on payroll, basically. Paid her to stay with me, and she was the best and did the little things that I needed so that I could take that maternity leave. So there was anxiety around work and how that was gonna work out, but other than that, it was probably just general. I don't know. Sometimes they say I live my life at a constant stage of casual anxiety, and that's kind of where I was at.
Joni:Yeah. Nice. guess I asked because I know and, not that this is the same experience, but when I I did an IUI before, I had to take progesterone, and literally just the progesterone increased anxiety for no reason. And it was just like a really unique experience where I'm, like, waking up in a panic and I'm like, I actually am not anxious about anything. So I don't know what's going on. So I had to increase my meds but it's helped a lot because it was crazy. It took me like, a month of like, I constantly have this chest tightness, constantly feeling anxious. always curious if other people have had that experience as well.
Rosie:and I feel like it's so crazy when you're pregnant because you're experiencing stuff like that and it's so common for people to be like, yep, pregnancy. Can be fixed? Or do I just have to, like, bear down and continue on? it's so hard to know.
Joni:No. It's such a good point. I think there's a lot of things that are normalized during pregnancy and postpartum. They're like, yeah. You'll just get through it. And I'm like, I don't want to be depressed and get through it. I'd rather be okay. was talking to someone the other day about how I would like to hire a postpartum doula 1 day and and have them there at night a few times a week. And she's like, you don't need to do that. You'll get through it. Like, I got through it. He'll be fine. I'm like, yeah. I don't wanna get through it. I would like to feel okay. I'd there's like, a lot of normalizing of things that are actually awful, and they just people don't they don't forget, but they're just like, but I did it. But you don't have to do it by yourself. So how was your birth? What did you hope for? What happened? How was that experience?
Rosie:I feel really lucky that I feel like I wouldn't change a thing. Which I am, like, I say that hesitantly because I know that people have really traumatic and really difficult experiences. And I I honestly feel like Kyle manifested a beautiful experience because I was sure everything was gonna be the worst case scenario. And he kept being like, or it could be the best case scenario. Like, It could be great.
Joni:There's that anxiety again, that anxiety about it will be bad. So I'm just gonna prepare myself for the worst.
Rosie:And I felt like he was being I'm definitely more I wouldn't say I'm a pessimist, but I but maybe it is the pessimist in me that's like, no, that I'm just a reality. but I also think I know I have more exposure to women's experiences and women's stories than he has. and so I just was like, yes. It could be great, but reality is it's also really hard and things can go wrong. And so I just was trying to prepare myself. I was scheduled to get induced a week. I'm trying to remember. Because Stewie was measuring very large the whole time. And so I was trying to get my doctor to schedule me to get induced a week early they wouldn't because apparently on the first they're not allowed to or they wouldn't, which is annoying to me. But we went in for our special 36 week scan that we were scheduled to do because of the cord and the placenta and all that kind of stuff. And he was looking very large, and then we went to the OBGYN, after. And she did a check and she was like, oh, he is right there. He is low. He's in position. And we were kind of unsure if I would even be able deliver him vaginally because his head was so big. And she was like, I think you're gonna be able to do this. He's in place. It seems like it's gonna be okay. And obviously, at 36 weeks, she was like, it's still early. But like, if he came, he would be okay. He's big. It'll be alright. And so when we got home for like, 24 hours, I was like, I'm gonna start doing this stuff to get him here. I was like, I'm gonna do all the voodoo, wives tale things. And then anxiety hit me like crazy, and I was like, just kidding. I am not ready for this baby. It was a few days before Christmas at this point. And I was like, I don't wanna have him until after Christmas. I'm not gonna do any of the things. Um, And then 2 days later, I had been sleeping in a recliner for the last, at that point 6 weeks because I couldn't like, sleeping on my side was too painful because of my pelvis. So I was in my recliner. I remember I got up to go to the bathroom and I like was bracing myself against the door because I was like, Oh my gosh, this is I'm hurting so bad. It just felt so heavy and so painful. Went to the bathroom came and sat back in my recliner, and then I just felt like a pop and a rush of liquid. And I just turned to Kyle and was like, Kyle, I think my water just broke. And then we went into full panic. And we were idiots and we're like, does that mean he's coming in 15 minutes? Do we have to get to the hospital now? So I, um, literally just was in my nightgown. Luckily, I had enough forethought to, like I put on a bra, like a nursing bra, and I went in my nightgown, fuzzy socks, and UGGs. And, like, I don't even think I brushed my teeth. I didn't brush my hair. We were so panicked that it meant we're gonna have the baby in the car. So we drove to the hospital. And, I think we were in there by 8 o'clock. I started pushing at like, 6 PM. And unfortunately, I pushed for like, um, 2 hours because I didn't know this is gonna sound funny. No 1 really explained to us that like, it was time to like, really go. We had a nurse that was in training. And so Kyle and I both thought that we were, like, warming up this whole time. So, like, I would push and then stop and we were talking and then push again. And then after 2 hours and I was starting to think okay, I'm starting to get really tired. Like when is when are we gonna start?
Joni:That's just classic health care. Just bad miscommunication.
Rosie:really unfortunate.
Joni:it.
Rosie:But luckily, I had a I got the epidural. Because after my first few contractions, I was, like, not doing this. I wasn't planning on in anyways. But then the doctor came in, and he said, you've been pushing for 2 hours. We might have to do a c section because we gotta get that baby out. And luckily, my videographer, Kenna, who was there um, she, I think, has some doula experience. And she just like, her spine straightened, and she was like, no. She's fine. We haven't even reached 2 hours yet. She still has 15 minutes before we reach 2 hours. If she wants to keep pushing, she can keep pushing. And I was like, damn. I guess she believes in me.
Joni:Were you close to her?
Rosie:No. I literally had met her that morning.
Joni:That's awesome.
Rosie:met her that morning. I I'm so grateful. In the heat of because I had never had a Braxton Hicks. I had nothing. And so when I was having those first few contractions, I sent my mom out. And I told Kyle, I was like, you text that videographer right now and tell her don't come. I don't want anyone here. Like, This is the well, this is the worst. And like, I don't want this documented. And luckily, he didn't listen to me and just had her still come because once I got the shot, I was fine. But she really advocated for me, and there was, like, a change of nurses the 1 that was in training and her like, trainer left and a new 1 came in. I'll never forget her. Her name was Britt. where they were, like, giggly and warm, Brit was, like, we're getting this baby out. And so I just said can I just like, keep pushing? Like, Can we just do this? And she was like, yeah. And then it was, like, 6 pushes later and
Joni:Oh my word. So it could have been there earlier potentially if you
Rosie:So a little bit earlier, for sure. I just thought we were warming up for 2 stinking hours.
Joni:is a long warm up. Yeah.
Rosie:It was a long time. That was funny. But even with that I I really just feel grateful. The night before we had made like, the most basic birth plan. I was like, yeah. I like the idea of walking around and bouncing on a ball and I can do those things. But then when I got in there and I was having contractions, I was like, okay. I couldn't walk before. I don't know what made me think I could bounce on a ball like, at this point. So I was like, definitely not. I'm just staying in bed the whole time. And it was it was great. We had like, think she called herself like a daddy doula lesson prior where she comes to the house and she's wonderful. And she kind of just like gave Kyle this 1 hour session of this is what you're gonna do. You're not gonna do this. These are your responsibilities. And that I felt like was so helpful. and Kyle was a great coach and a great support. And, yeah,
Joni:amazing. I'm glad it was a great experience. I mean 33 percent of women report their birth is traumatic, but that also means 67 percent do not. And yeah. I'm so glad. How are the first few months postpartum? Actually before that what was the feeling of meeting your son? Can you put it into words?
Rosie:because we were, like 3 and a half weeks early and once he came out, was slower to cry. So he kind of immediately got rushed to getting some checks. So I didn't get to meet him. I I mean, It was still right away, but it wasn't like, immediately to my chest like I had hoped. I was okay with that. I was just like, whatever. his safety is more important than my desire. And so I just it was so crazy. He was very, very calm. He was wide eyed he was just like the sweetest little button and his little cap. I mean, It just was incredible. And by the time we got to the room, you know, obviously, we're exhausted. breastfeeding did not come easy to me, so he got a formula bottle and that he just sucked that thing down. And then we sent him to the nursery so we could sleep. I didn't sleep because I was so, like, so riled up. I just looked at pictures of him till like, 2 in the morning. When we woke up, we were just so excited to see him. And I remember Kyle called the desk and asked to have him brought back to the room. And um, you know, obviously, they have a lot of things to do, so it was taking longer than we had hoped. And he was like, I'm just gonna go get him. Kyle went and got him. And yeah, we just were, like, shocked by how immediately obsessed we were with him. Yeah.
Joni:And then how were those first few months postpartum? Did you end up breastfeeding? What ended up happening?
Rosie:I would say the first 2 weeks were so insanely hard. I mean, obviously, it's so sweet because you're having this magical experience. But like, I feel like I'm really able to carpet cart what am I saying? What's the word? Carp I can't think. Put in a little compartment. My experience there you go. Thank you. My experience with being a mom and loving Stewie, that is in 1 perfect little box, but then becoming a parent and recovering from a major medical experience is in another box. And, like, where 1 is so sweet and beautiful, the other 1 was dark and hard. And, I mean, it just was, little things like I'm trying to sit up constantly to check on him and his bassinet because I wasn't aware of how noisy newborns were when they sleep. And we're so stressed about every little gagging noise he makes. Is he choking? But then my stomach is destroyed and I can't sit up quickly without like, extreme pain. And so I remember trying to like, walk myself up my headboard using my hands to kinda like, lift myself up. 1 time, I remember I woke up once in the middle of the night and just said to Kyle in a panic. I was still probably half asleep. I just said, like, where's the baby? Because I had a dream that the baby was gone. And so he like, shot out of bed and he was like, he's right here. Like, I but I was so stressed. So that was hard. Breastfeeding did not come easily. I started using a nipple shield though and that I mean, I praise nipple shields. I love them. I was introduced to 1 in the hospital, but they were like, you need to use this only for a couple days and you need to get off of it as soon as possible. So I was really anxious about that. But then we had a lactation specialist come to our home, and she was like, you're fine. You're fine. It's working. You're feeding your baby. It's helping. It's a great tool. You're fine. So I feel like I used a nipple shield for like, 2 months or something. And then 1 time, I was waiting for Kyle to grab a nipple shield and just to try to like, soothe Stewie, I held him to my bare breast, and he just latched.
Joni:Oh,
Rosie:And it was like, oh, you can do that now. And it only worked on 1 side, though. He couldn't do it on the other. And a week or 2 later, he could do it on both. So I breastfed for like, 4 months. But I just like, I didn't have the attachment to it or the experience that lots of women have. it it I just like, wasn't enjoying it. And I was really lucky that because of the nipple shield I didn't really experience like, cracked nipples or any of those kind of pains that come. I tried to then I was like, okay. Well, Maybe I'll just I'll pump. And I pumped all the way through because Kyle so Kyle could give him bottles. I was like, maybe I'll just pump and that will be better. And then I learned no, that just like, doubles the amount of work. there was, like, a few weeks where I was, like, trying out different things, and then I just decided I'm done. I just was done. And he took the formula well, and we got 1 of those little baby cappuccino machines. Those things are the best. We did formula for the rest of the way, and it was great.
Joni:That's amazing. Yeah. Some people feel guilt around that. Did you experience that? Are you able to be like, no. This is not working for us.
Rosie:No. think I was okay. And I feel like that's 1 of the things that well, I'm really grateful for coming into this a little bit, quote, unquote, later in life. Because I just had seen a lot and I had learned from a lot of experiences and I just have no same thing with my birth like, I had things that I thought would be cool to experience, but not gonna set any expectations because it's not really ultimately something I can control. And so I don't want to be disappointed if it doesn't work out as I had dreamed. And that's how I felt about breastfeeding. If it works, awesome. If it doesn't, awesome. Formula's great. So I was grateful for that experience.
Joni:Yeah.
Rosie:he's great as a mostly formula fed baby. And I'm sure the next 1 will try it out, but I don't feel like huge amount of pressure to
Joni:Totally. Yeah. I think it's helpful to hear someone not feel guilt about it because it's a conversation I have with moms a lot in the postpartum period where they're like, I would like more of a break. I feel really trapped.
Rosie:Mhmm.
Joni:It's easier for my partner to leave than it is for me, and a lot of it's around breastfeeding. And so we have discussions around that.
Rosie:It's so tough. I think the guilt is real. Even if no 1 is shaming you, you still kind of have that script in your head. I felt like I needed to like, talk certain people in my life down because I was like, you feel guilty for not doing it, so we're not gonna go there because I can't handle the guilt. I'm not feeling it, but I don't wanna feel it. We're not going there. Because there is just so much freaking pressure. So much pressure. Everything. It's nuts.
Joni:the whole Barbie speech that America Ferrera gave. It's like you can never do it completely right. So you just gotta like, stick with your gut and do what is right for you and your kid or you and your family.
Rosie:yeah.
Joni:So a lot of people have thoughts that scare them about their baby, particularly about breathing. Is my baby breathing? I'm gonna go check on them. But also worrying about dropping the baby down the stairs or worrying about hurting the baby on purpose,
Rosie:Mhmm.
Joni:Which is 50 percent of parents are like, what if I drown the baby? What does that say about me? Or it's oh, I looked at my baby's penis too long. What does that mean?
Rosie:Why is that so why is that so true? Oh my gosh. It's so funny.
Joni:They're like such common thoughts, but specifically, I always like to bring up sexual thoughts because everyone's always like, oh my gosh. Am I a monster? It's It's like, no.
Rosie:No.
Joni:has their thoughts.
Rosie:No. I love that. Yeah. Kyle and I have both talked about so the breathing thing was definitely real in the beginning. That's so funny that you said that. The first second when they gave him to me, my sweet videographer was like, why don't you just try breastfeeding it even if it doesn't work? It'll be sweet video that we can put in this video. And I like, the shots look so weird because I was, like, trying to push my breast out of the way because I felt like my boob was smothering him. And I was like, he can't breathe. And she was like, he can breathe. And I was, like, trying to push it away. And she was like, you're pushing it away from him. And yeah. The breathing thing hit early. Um, Immediately. I was worried about him breathing. he was a huge thrower upper in the beginning. And so that I was amazed by how far it could go. It was like 1 time, it like, hit a wall that was, like, 5 feet away, and I was like, how did that happen? You're so small. That would be me being able to projectile 30 feet. This is insane. So, yeah, we're stressed about that. But Kyle and I both have talked about the invasive thoughts. sometimes it's just okay. What if when I cross this intersection, that car doesn't stop and t bones us and kills Stewie? Like, Those kind of thoughts. And luckily, my therapist really helped me and she was like, you're thinking about these things more because you now have this thing that you're trying to keep alive, and it is possible for him to die. your brain is practicing, like, catching up and thinking preemptively how to protect him. She was like, so having those thoughts is normal, but what you wanna pay attention to is like, are you getting stuck on them? Are you then spiraling on that thought? Are you kinda able to say like, okay, that was a thought, we're moving on. Finding that balance.
Joni:Yeah.
Rosie:But even still just over New Year's, we were in Seattle with family walking down 1 of the piers, I was holding Stewie, and I looked at Kyle, and I just said, are you having invasive thoughts right now? And he said, yes. I am. Because we both were just thinking I don't know what he was thinking. But for me, it was imagining Stewie falling off or imagining myself throwing him off or watching him drown what that would look like. And then I just kinda had to be like, okay. Freaky thoughts. That would be freaky, but we're safe. I'm not gonna throw Stewie off a pier. I don't wanna throw Stewie off a pier. We're okay. And then just new thoughts if their thoughts were boxes on conveyor belts, that's what I imagine. I need to look in this box and then close it and let it go because I have a new box coming down the conveyor belt and I need to look in that 1 and let it go. those kind of thoughts are very real.
Joni:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, The research says like, a hundred percent of parents have them, but not everybody has it impact their function. So, like, Some people can't sleep with like, breathing thing because they're checking their baby so much, or they can't walk down the stairs anymore without putting their baby in a car seat, or they won't let anybody else put their baby in the car seat because they're so nervous that they're gonna put them in wrong. And it makes sense. anxiety holds on to like, the thing that matters most to you. So once you have a kid that's what matters most to you. And even during pregnancy that needing to check on him consistently for good reasons, but also who you care about most, and so you wanna make sure he's okay. Or for me, I have thoughts a lot about my husband dying in a car accident. And I'm like, I have to say drive safe to him or he'll probably die. And I'm
Rosie:I'm the same way. I'm the same way.
Joni:yeah, anxiety always lies, and we have these compulsive tendencies. So I think your therapist said it beautifully. As long as you're not really getting stuck in that cycle of I have to do something to make this thought go away then they're just normal thoughts that we can dismiss.
Rosie:Yeah. I found that like, I also as he's started eating solid foods and as we're introducing new foods to him there's things that I feel anxious about, and I am, like, 99.9 percent sure that Kyle knows about like, I'm trying to think what would be an example? I don't know. Don't give him a raisin a choking hazard thing. And I'm like, I know that he knows, but my brain is like, but what if he doesn't and the baby dies and he's like, why didn't you tell me? So every now and then I'll be like, Kyle, I know that you probably know this, so I mostly just have to say this for my anxiety. Don't give him blank or you have to do blank to blank when you feed it to him. And that's been really helpful to kind of, he doesn't feel like I'm saying, you're an idiot. You don't know these things. I know more than you. this is mostly about me, and I need to vocalize this to like, deal with my anxiety, and that kind of it helps us. I don't think you're dumb, but I have to say this or else it's gonna kill me.
Joni:Speaking of Kyle, your relationship changed? How has it changed? I'm guessing it did.
Rosie:Everyone said that before, and I didn't get that. But I don't know if I would say like, our relationship has changed just more like obviously, our life is so different now. And the ways that we would connect are different just because of our opportunities at this point. I didn't wanna do the thing that I feel like sometimes happens where the mom kind of micromanages how the dad dads, which can sometimes lead to the dad being like well, I'm not gonna do it. And so I really, like obviously, if I felt like something was gonna harm Stewie or if it was a danger or it was just a matter of like, education, I would say something to Kyle. But I also have really worked hard to just let Kyle parent in the way that he naturally comes to parenting, and that my way is not better than his. And we are obviously so new at this, so we're still working on finding like, our way. but Kyle has never held back. Like, He is just as involved. And right now I work and Kyle is full time with Stewie. And so I feel really grateful that we are both Stewie's parents. We don't have a default parent and a supporting parent. we're both just in it. And right now, Kyle on the day to day is in it more than I am.
Joni:Since he's a stay at home parent, does he ever have resentments that come up? that's typically what I hear from the whoever's the stay at home parent is I wish I was getting more help, but it sounds like you guys have a good you're communicating a lot in your relationship.
Rosie:I think that is so true. So I started out as the stay at home parent, and I definitely felt that way. it's too much. I need more help. And it's so hard with remote working because where he normally would just be gone during the day because he's at home, it was hard sometimes to not be like, you're here. You should be helping. So that was really hard. But we just tried to talk about it. My therapist was always really encouraging to communicate. And whenever I communicate, Kyle is great about being open to that. it definitely took time to kind of find that balance. 1 thing that I think has been really eye opening for me, switching responsibilities in that sense, is I have had more appreciation. Because before, I would be with Stewie all day. And basically, by the time Kyle was done with work, I was like, I'm ready to tap out on Stewie responsibilities. I wanna be here, but I don't wanna be in charge. Um, so, Switching responsibilities, I've realized like, oh, after a full day of working, I am also still really tired. Um, And so then jumping into full time Stewie that's hard. it's just giving me a a greater appreciation of we're both working during the day. We both are doing jobs, and we both need to be on stewy duty at the end of the day. And luckily, as someone who is self employed, we've been able to find a really good balance because it was starting to wear on Kyle. And I think it was good for him to gain appreciation of, like obviously, we love Stewie, and he's it's so we found a balance where like, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, I work full time, and he's with Stewie full time. And then on Tuesdays and Thursdays, we swap. And Kyle works on his own projects and I'm with Stewie during those days and work during naps. so we're lucky in that case that it's we are able to kind of switch off.
Joni:But I think also just even if someone can't switch off that evenly, the conversations are what lead to being able to not have resentment towards your partner. Because yeah. I feel like I hear a lot of women say like, I truly love my partner. I love them, but I hate them right now. I'm like, I believe you because you aren't getting a break. but a lot of the time it's because they didn't say it. They don't have the skills to say it. So it sounds like those skills you've been working on for years and years and years of going to therapy, of setting boundaries and asserting your needs, and maybe that's just who you are anyway but really served you well in that postpartum and now just parenthood in general.
Rosie:Yeah. I think 1 of the things you said that you work with, like, mostly women in Utah so I imagine a lot of LDS women. I think we're taught this idea that motherhood is supposed to be, like, the end all be all of happiness, so fulfilling. It gives you everything you need. And I think for a lot of women that might be the case. But also for a lot of women, there's this process of, like, why doesn't it feel that way to me? And why isn't it everything that I need? And so you're going through this phase of trying to like, grapple with this expectation that you've had all of your life and it's majorly disappointing that it's not what it's supposed to be. And then you're like, okay. So what is it? And then you're, I feel like you're just trying to you're kinda gotta rebuild your expectations and your future and all of that kind of stuff. And so pair that with, like and now I need us really having honest communication. And if you weren't really doing that before, it's just so freaking much.
Joni:Yeah. There's this word called matrescence. Have you heard of it before? So it's like maternal plus adolescence um, and it's like the process of going from like, a woman to a mother. And so it's similar to adolescence in that your hormones are changing, your body's changing, your identity's is changing, and your relationships are changing. So it's this huge massive shift in your life we're pretty kind to teenagers. I hope most people are. It's being like, yeah, I get it. I was going through it too when I was a teenager, but we're not always as good at offering that same compassion to moms when their whole world is turned upside down. And then you're right. they're just trying learn how to, like, feed a kid and sleep. And then on top of that, having these hard conversations with their partner that they may not have already had. It is actually hard. And so it's really fun to work with these, women because they get better pretty quick. Once they start learning how to ask for their needs and they start sleeping, they're
Rosie:So good. That's that is a that is a dream combo. Sleep and communication. Yeah. I just think if I could give any advice and it's I mean, this is probably not for your audience because if most of you people listening are already moms or already married but when I talk to single women, I just say like, practice now. In dating 1 thing I'm really grateful for is I really over communicated probably in some ways my expectations of wanting a true partner and that I didn't want an eldest child via marriage. Like, I want a partner. And that, for good reason, probably scared some people off, and I'm so grateful that it did. because Kyle is my partner. And does that mean that we're perfectly balanced? No. And we still run into stereotypes and gender roles and norms and like, I especially am actively always fighting those. And it still is work, but like, going into it, we knew what we expected of each other and what we wanted. And so I think if women if you can set that expectation and you have that understanding going in, it just would be so much easier. But it's not saying that it's not possible if that wasn't the groundwork that you started off of.
Joni:Yeah. It certainly depends on the relationship, but I find most people in their relationships, they I should say when they have a good relationship, they're just struggling through this new phase. If they can learn how to ask for their needs to be met, their partner receives that really well.
Rosie:It's awesome. It's so good.
Joni:But, obviously, yeah like, it depends on their relationship at baseline. That's not true for everybody. I guess my last questions 2 questions. So first what changes have you had to make or adaptations were required after you had Stewie?
Rosie:It has been it's just a completely different life.
Joni:It's just like a bomb in your life.
Rosie:Yeah. I just I, I maybe am not as good at this as other people are. And maybe that's like my own issues still coming through. I still look at moms and I am like, I don't get how you are doing this. I'm running through my brain every mom I know who has done something in addition to raising children, but even just raising children. And I'm like, how did you how did you do that? Like, I'd I'm genuinely confused. I, you know, before Stewie would consider myself like a highly productive person and probably attached too much of my self worth to my ability to like, perform or produce. And that has been a huge adjustment that I still feel very much in the thick of. But it is fun to look back and be like, we've come so far in the last year. I remember when I kept saying to Kyle we need to give him a bath. we need to bathe him. And it took like, days before we could give him a bath because it just felt like, impossible to add a bath to the schedule. but now I remember the first time I took him out by myself and did a couple of errands and gave him a bath that day. And I was like, Kyle, can you believe what we accomplished? We've come so far. I ran 2 errands and gave him a bath today. And like, we're okay. And so we've celebrated those wins and it is probably much slower than know. I you know, obviously, you shouldn't compare, but it's impossible not to. But I just look at a lot of my friends and I'm like, I don't know how you're doing it. And I'm so far behind and it has been really it's been so tough for me. And sometimes they say, like and I need to figure out like, a better analogy. But trying to work while he's taking a nap, for me, feels like working with a ticking time bomb next to me. it's too stressful and I'm so unproductive. I it's really hard for me to work while he's napping because I'm stressed out about it. So all that to say is like, I don't I don't feel like I figured it out yet. It's still really hard. And when you say that to anyone, the response is always, oh, you know, you just figured out. And I'm always like, I don't feel like I'm figuring it out though.
Joni:It sounds like you are doing it, though.
Rosie:But we're still alive. We're surviving. Yeah. And I think that is the truth of like, I said to Kyle just yesterday man, there's so many freaking things that I want to do. I want to measure our garden in the back, and I want to sew this shirt that I bought fabric for. And I there's so many things that I wanna do. And in the past, I know how I would do it in my past life, but I haven't figured out in my current life on how to do it. And I guess I'm just like, I'm okay with that. I just am constantly having to tell myself this is a completely new way of life for me, and I'm still learning how to do it. And that that's okay because Stewie's happy and he's alive, and he's great, and we're happy, and we're alive, and it's fine.
Joni:I think that's a really honest response. I I don't know if I believe in the word balance anymore because I don't think I don't think anyone is balanced in all things. Like, You tend to favor 1 thing over others, and that's okay. It's It's very honest. I appreciate it. How is your mental health now? Like, What type of skills have you had to use over the last year to adjust to being a mom?
Rosie:I feel like it's pretty good. Um, There's been some days where I have been like, I'm doing fine. And I will get lax about taking Zoloft. And then I'm like, I'm not okay. I'm not okay. And so I get back on the Zoloft horse. And I've just decided that I'm gonna stay on it because, you know, we hope to have another child and I rather not go through the process of getting off and getting back on. And so I just have stayed on it, and it's been good for me. I definitely like I love the days where I get to work during the day. And then I love then I get to have days with Stewie and I'm totally fine with being transparent. But like, on those days, I feel more anxious, and I wanna be working. yeah. It just has been, like, a very interesting process. But I definitely would wanna end with we cannot get over how obsessed we are with him. I know everyone says oh, it'll be different when you're it's your own kids, but like, my gosh, were they right. We walk around Trader Joe's, and I'll be like, can you believe that all of these parents feel how we feel about Stewie, about those kids? And this whole time people with their kids were feeling this way about them. I just cannot I you can't put into words, like, how much you love them and how wonderful it is. He is literally the best human on this planet, and everything he does is incredible and special and worthy of shouting from the rooftop. So we are so obsessed with him.
Joni:I love that. I think also it gives at least me some compassion for other people. I'm like, you're someone's baby. Even if you're doing things that I don't understand or things that aren't aligned with me and what I would do in my life you're someone's baby. And someone feels that way about you, hopefully. Hopefully, feels that way about you too. Um, yeah, I think that's 1 thing I ask my clients to do is like, well, would you want what you're thinking for your child when they're older? And often they're like, no. I don't want that. And I'm like, okay. So treat yourself the same way. And sometimes that clicks in a different way because you're like, oh, I do feel this different way about this little person, and someone feels like that about me too.
Rosie:There's that great book. I can't think of the name of it. I wanna say it's called, oh, I can't think of it. Anyways, she talks about being a model versus being a martyr. And she talks about is this the kind of life you wanna model for your child and often the answer is no. And so I've tried to model being a whole complete nuanced person for Stewie, rather than being, like, the perfect mom or mother. I can't do that. I don't want to do that.
Joni:Yeah.
Rosie:It's definitely not coming to me, so I'm just gonna be a whole person for him instead because I know that's how he'll be happiest as well. think that's beautiful. K. Well, Thank you so much for this, Rosie. I loved learning from you. Absolutely. Thank you.
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