The Sad Moms Club

41. Brook's Story: Overcoming Birth Trauma and Embracing Self-Advocacy

April 30, 2024 • Joni Lybbert • Season 2 • Episode 41

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This episode of the Sad Moms Club features a conversation with Brook Archibald, who shares her harrowing journey through birth trauma, miscarriage, postpartum depression, and her struggle with medical professionals to be heard and adequately treated. Brooke's story starts with her first pregnancy, detailing the negligence she faced from healthcare providers, the severe pain and complications during and after delivery, and the psychological aftermath. 

Her narrative emphasizes the importance of self-advocacy, finding the right healthcare providers, and the transformative power of therapy and support systems. Brooke also discusses how her experiences impacted her subsequent pregnancies and her eventual healing process. Through sharing, she hopes to encourage other women to stand up for their healthcare needs and find solace in the shared experiences of others.

00:00 Welcome to the Sad Moms Club: A Story of Birth Trauma
02:11 Brook's Harrowing Pregnancy and Birth Story
15:54 Postpartum Struggles and Seeking Help
22:03 The Turning Point: Finding a New Doctor and An Unexpected Discovery
25:44 Navigating Health and Legal Challenges
28:06 Finding Strength and Advocacy
30:09 The Journey Through Infertility and Mental Health
36:32 Learning to Cope with Anxiety and PTSD
39:33 Embracing Therapy and Finding Peace
46:01 Sharing Experiences and Supporting Others
47:44 Reflecting on Growth and Self-Advocacy

Follow along on The Sad Moms Club's Instagram: @the.sad.moms.club

Follow along on The Sad Moms Club's Instagram: @the.sad.moms.club

Joni:

Hi, welcome back to the Sad Moms Club. Today we are hearing a story about a person I was connected to through Instagram. Just as a trigger warning, there's a lot of discussion around birth trauma and a little bit around miscarriage. And so if that's not something that's good for you to hear right now, feel free to come back next week. So there's some real twists and turns of this story. I'm not going to give you too much background just because she tells it better than I would. But it's not really going where where you think it's going. At least it surprised me a lot. If you like to hear wild medical stories, this is definitely a good one to listen to, but also if it's going to cause you anxiety about an upcoming birthing experience, maybe skip this for later. I feel like as I was editing it and reflecting on her story, I thought there's a lot to learn from Brooke's experience as an outsider. As a provider I think it was a reminder of, of the importance of believing people in their experience. I guess I say this more like when I worked as a nurse in the medical field. But it can be come easy to be jaded and just the importance of working to connect with the person in front of me instead of applying preconceived ideas and biases to them, one person I went to school with, she's in my cohort, she talked about being a humble investigator and not assuming, but just learning from that person about their own experience. And I just thought this was a really good reminder of that. And then as a patient, She emphasizes the importance of finding a provider that's a good fit for you. And it totally sucks that the onus is on the patient to find a good provider, but as I always say, all providers are not equal. All doctors, PAs, MPs, therapists, PTs, like not everyone is equal. And it really depends on the actual person and how seriously they take their job. I also feel like this touches on the power of education to be able to feel empowered and to make decisions for yourself and advocate for yourself. um, That's all I'm going to say about it, but here's Brooke and her story.

Welcome to the Sad Moms Club. Welcome to the Sad Moms Club. Welcome to the Sad Moms Club.

Joni:

Today we have Brooke Archibald on the podcast to share about her own journey through birth trauma, anxiety, depression. thanks for being on the podcast, Brooke. I'm just going to have you start wherever you're comfortable with your story. And then I'll just ask questions along the way. Is that okay?

Brook:

Let's just jump right in. in 2013, we had been married for seven months when we got pregnant, the first time. And I started off sick from the moment he was conceived. Throwing up, I had abdomen pain. Like it was not a fun pregnancy. But I was, I was young and didn't know much and just found the first doctor that I could. I had a lot of signs that she wasn't a good fit for me, but I ignored them. like I said, I was really sick and there was one day my mom took me into the, office cause I hadn't stopped throwing up all day and I actually stopped urinating too. Cause that's how dehydrated I was.

Joni:

Oh no.

Brook:

And they gave me three IV bags of fluid in the doctor's office, but I never saw the doctor. She never talked to me. And then at a followup, she never asked about it or anything. When I mentioned sickness, she wouldn't give me any medication for it. I had problems with asthma and reflex and she gave me weird off brand medicines that did nothing. I just suffered for nine months, basically. And then at the end of October, the big day came, I woke up at two in the morning started having the pain, but I thought I'll wait, until it progresses so that. We go to the hospital ready to go, right? I woke up my husband a few hours later, we go to the hospital. And at this hospital, you go in through the emergency room and then there's like a private elevator that takes you up to a waiting room. Before you get admitted to a delivery room. So I go into the waiting room and the nurse does a check on me and says that I'm at a three and a half and to be admitted, I have to progress to a four. So we wait, I already see your face being like,

Joni:

Yeah. I feel like she could've just said four. Mm.

Brook:

I wait the 30 minutes and no change. So then she says, okay, how about you walk around the hospital halls for an hour and squat? You know, Try and get this labor progressing. I was a little annoyed, but okay, let's do it. Do the squatting. I'm thinking, man, this is really uncomfortable. I've got to be progressing because my pain isn't increasing, right? And I go back to that nurse and again, still a three and a half. So I wait another 30 minutes to an hour. Still a three and a half. So she's like, okay, how about you go up to your doctor's office? Cause they were in the hospital. And oh, and I didn't mention that the nurse has to call the doctor and get permission to admit you into A room. And the doctor kept saying no. So she's like, how about you go talk to the doctor upstairs? So I go upstairs, explain the situation to the nurse, and they sit me in the room where there's a chair and the monitor and stuff. Still at three and a half, and The nurse lets me wait in there for an hour, still never see the doctor, checks me again, says I'm at a three and a half, and that I am just in pre labor. And I explained to the nurse the pain is getting worse, I'm probably at a six or seven at this point in pain, and what am I supposed to do? And she told me to go home, take some Tylenol, And get in a warm bath and that this prelabor can last for days and up to a week. And I was already two days past my due date. So I thought, okay. That put the first seed in my head that, no one believes me for one or two. Maybe I'm just a baby and can't handle I don't know what's going on cause I'm only 21. So I'm just too young to know what's going on. It also puts the seed in my head that it's never going to end and that it's going to last for a long time.

Joni:

that's so horrible. And just take some Tylenol. unhelpful. Yeah.

Brook:

at the time in her basement and so the tub was up in her bedroom and the pain is getting worse. It was this really intense pain in my back and it didn't ever go away. I'd never heard of back labor before. I'd only heard of the classic, contracting your stomach I just had this intense pain in my stomach and like back in my kind of tailbone area I would go through waves where like my stomach would contract, but I didn't really feel that it was mostly just in the back. And it kept getting worse. I was sitting in the tub, just miserable. And at this point is when. I start losing control of my body it's like an out of body experience for me. So I start making noises and calling out, and don't even know how to explain it because I've never heard the sounds before.

Joni:

Almost like Primal.

Brook:

and some crying, but a lot of my mind being in dark places of It's never gonna end, no one believes me, all that kind of stuff. oh, my Mother in law, she worked at that hospital at the time in the NICU, and so she was like, you really need to go back to the hospital, and I was like, I can't, they say I'm not in labor, and she's like, you are in labor, I know you're in labor, and I was like, you have to come with me, cause they don't believe me, you have to get them to admit me.

Joni:

you need someone to kind of advocate for you a little

Brook:

Yeah, so we get in the car, we start making the 20 something minute drive back to the hospital. And at this point, my memory really goes out. I know that I came to at one point, I remember coming down a hill and I was thinking it would be better if I died than to have to keep going through all this.

Joni:

Oh, that's so horrible.

Brook:

and it shocked me because I'd never thought things like that before. I was just seeing white and, In so much pain and it was getting to a point where I was feeling like I had to push and so my mother in law Was like don't let her push in the car. She's gonna have a baby in the car and then let's see my memory comes back when I'm being wheeled into the emergency room and Again, I had no control of myself. And at this point I am screaming like screaming out Loud and I see a cop standing in the corner. Just like staring at me There's people sitting in chairs looking at me and I'm aware that I'm making this huge scene, but there's nothing I can do about it

Joni:

Yeah, totally.

Brook:

Admitted person was like when did her water break and I'm crying it hasn't broken And so they take me up the stairs or up the elevator and the nurse that I had seen that morning She was like, I'm not calling the doctor get her in a room right now You I go into a room, they check me, and I'm still a three and a half.

Joni:

Oh my gosh.

Brook:

been like over twelve hours, and I still was stuck at that point.

Joni:

Ugh. I've heard back labor is just horrible. It's just like a different level of pain. Oh, I'm so sorry.

Brook:

I've had four kids, and that was my only back labor, and it was definitely the worst. By far.

Joni:

that's horrible. So she admits you even though she's not supposed to. Did they start you on like Pitocin to kind of get things moving?

Brook:

She gets me in a room, the anesthesiologist comes in. oh, and at some point my husband had called my mom. Cause he's just like, I don't know what to do with her and I need help. And so my mom's coming down the hall and she hears this screaming and she's like, Oh my gosh, what is that sound? And then she realizes it's me. And she's horrified. Now I've got a support system in the room and the anesthesiologist is Helped a lot in the episode. So I finally start coming off of the really high intense and I'm just exhausted and hungry at this point. I had a ton of like reflex pain too, in my throat. And so I asked for medicine and they gave me this thing that made it way worse. So every time I would lay back, it would just shoot up my throat.

Joni:

Oh no.

Brook:

Yeah. And then the doctor came in. So I'll call her Dr. A. I don't know if I

Joni:

Okay.

Brook:

names. Dr. A, she came in and she said, I'm not working in the hospital today. I'm not delivering babies today. So the other on call doctor is going to deliver. And at this point I was like, I don't care. You're no help. she breaks my water. And I finally jump up to a six or seven. And then it was just a lot of waiting with both of our moms and my husband. We were all tired. I remember hitting the, it. 24 hour mark of when it started. And at some point, I don't know how it happened, but my epidural stopped working and I got intense back pain again. And then I, start screaming again uncontrollably. And then I remember the anesthesiologist coming in, he gives me a shot of something and I pass out. And then I like came to again and was just like, what is going on with me? I've never acted like this before. I reached 26 hours of labor, and the nurse was like, Okay, we need to get some movement going, let's start pushing. So I start pushing and pushing, and they're telling me that I'm doing a good job, but he's just not coming down. Two hours of non stop pushing, they have a shift change. New nurses come in, they do a check I think I had like a five minute break and they're like we'll bring the doctor in soon And then I start pushing again. I think the doctor came in like 30 minutes later At one point the doctor had both of her hands up inside Holding on to my son's jaw and she was trying to pull him down And her hand slipped and blood shot across the room And yeah, it was quite the scene And it was weird because she kept threatening me with a c section. And I was like, I don't care if I have a c section let's just get this over with. my only reservation for having one was every time I laid back again, the throw up would come up. So I was like, am I gonna like, aspirate during a c section? Or, and maybe that's why they won't do it. after four straight hours of pushing, he was finally born. And I was exhausted.

Joni:

Yeah.

Brook:

I mean, I was out of it. He was totally beat up. He had a bruised eye, cuts on his head. His head was like this four inch long cone. I guess the problem was he was sunny side up. And so pushing against my tailbone, right. and that was the back pain. And then his head was in like the 98th percentile. So it was a huge baby head He was stuck.

Joni:

horrible. So you tore?

Brook:

Yes. that's the next part is i'm super out of it and i'm laying there. My son had a fever so he had to go into the in between the nursery and the NICU, which is the TLC nursery So I only got to see him like every two hours for a feeding. But The doctor she was waiting for bigger lights to be brought in and equipment to be brought in She didn't ever tell me what was going on, but later I found out from my mom that she told my mom she has a tear and she said it was as big as her fingers to part of her palm. So we think it was somewhere around six inches straight up. it was like a third degree tear.

Joni:

Up.

Brook:

Up. Yes, it was straight up inside the vaginal wall.

Joni:

Oh, inside the vaginal wall. Oh, I was thinking like, through your urethra.

Brook:

No, it was straight up on the left side of my vaginal wall, so she had ripped it apart when her hand slipped.

Joni:

So this is not Dr. A, this is Dr. A's friend.

Brook:

Yes, Dr. B. That did the delivery, and she was stitching me up had to use extra tools, and she asked for this big light, so I leave the hospital, and within a week's time, I had mastitis, and Dr. A was not helpful with that either. And I also had the fishy smell, that one they called in antibiotics, and it cleared up, and then about two weeks later, it started coming back. But I thought I'll just wait until my six week appointment, cause it's probably just something going on with that huge tear that I had.

Joni:

Yeah.

Brook:

so I go into my six week appointment, and I tell her that I'm starting to notice a weird smell, and that I've got a lot of pain and discomfort, she does the check and everything, and she's like, You look great, and you're cleared to go. I don't smell anything, so just make sure you shower better, and just sleep naked. I thought, wow, that is so embarrassing, to be told to shower better, when you know a weird smell. I left there feeling pretty. Defeated on top of the bad birth experience. I just was I don't even know the word. I felt this big small I just felt small.

Joni:

That, you said you started to have Emotional. Problems as well.

Brook:

Yeah, so my husband went back to work when my son was like two days old and we lived in a basement apartment and I did start having a lot of Anxiety a lot of depression and I didn't really know what it was

Joni:

Right.

Brook:

I just felt like I was going crazy kind of You I would start to feel really like a caged animal, like I was trapped and I just had to get out. I had to get out. And so I would call my mom and she would, come pick me up and take me out for the day. And I'd go hang out with my siblings cause they all still lived at home. Then my husband would come get me after work and that would help. It definitely didn't fix the problem.

Joni:

Right. Of course.

Brook:

Um, There were a lot of days that we had this big love sack and I would just lay on that. I would feed my son. he would sleep and I would wait till he'd wake up and then I'd feed him again and just keep laying there on this glove sack. Part of the problem was he ate like crazy. He would eat for anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes on each side, each feeding.

Joni:

Oh, wow.

Brook:

Yeah. And then he would do that every two to three hours. But he slept 12 hours through the night. So I thought, oh, this is great. I get a good night's sleep, but Constantly sitting on the ground or sitting on the couch Having to feed him this long sometimes I'd put him in his bed and finally get myself going but then 30 minutes later I had to sit down for another hour and a half. So it was hard to get moving And then on top of that, I started getting my physical symptoms, where my stomach was bloated, I was in a lot of pain, it felt like I had a wet rag inside of my pants all the time. And I had a lot of pain down lower in my low abdomen area. and inside the vagina, and a lot of itching and extreme exhaustion, Like I said, we lived in the basement and the laundry was on the third floor So I'd have to walk two flights of stairs to do laundry and by the time I'd get to the top of the stairs I felt like I couldn't breathe. My heart was hurting and my lungs were hurting and I just would have to sit and pause there

Joni:

Oh my word.

Brook:

We continued to live there for another year and moved into our house and that did help me. I was, a year postpartum at this point, so naturally that kind of postpartum stuff was easing up. And not being in a basement helped. We got another car, that helped give me more freedom. But I still, my physical symptoms were still really bad. And they were getting worse. It was getting to a point where was it nine months postpartum was the first time that we were out in public and my husband, I got up and walked past him. And he's like, I can smell you in public. That was the first time. So then I started getting so paranoid and just like, I wouldn't go buy any clothes because I didn't want to try them on because then the dressing room would smell so bad.

Joni:

Oh.

Brook:

I didn't exercise because of the smell and also the extreme exhaustion. So it's just bad.

Joni:

Yeah, this just is all so sad. I'm so sorry,

Brook:

it was bad. So I ended up going to the doctor again, or I went to my primary care and I was like, something is not right. And he was like, it sounds like you have a yeast infection. So he didn't do a check or anything. He just started prescribing the medication for it. And then it would clear up, and then come back. It got to a point where after like four prescriptions, he was like, You have to go be seen by an OB at this point. So I go back to Dr. A, of course, and she does a check and says I don't see any raging yeast infection, so I don't know what to tell you. Okay, what about all my other symptoms? But, again, she just made me feel so small that I didn't, stand up for myself, I didn't say anything, I didn't, you know,

Joni:

Well, You probably felt at that point that you can't because she's not going to listen anyway. Like you've been kind of denied so many times that

Brook:

Yeah.

Joni:

like, why even try?

Brook:

Yeah, so when I got to, I think it was 14 months postpartum, I noticed this thing, like when I had wiped, this little cottony looking string, and I thought, oh, is that stitches? Because I remember seeing stitches like the first week postpartum, And As it dawned on me, I had that huge tear. Maybe it never healed, right? got to be what it is. So I called Dr. A, or I called the office, and I was like, I want to be seen by Dr. B, because she actually did my delivery. And, Knows more about my tear because Dr. A never said anything about my six inch tear So I thought maybe she doesn't even know that I had it and they would not let me see. Dr B without getting permission from Dr. A and B first So again, I just felt like there's no help out there and I was talking to my mom and she was like this is enough Like stop going to these bad doctors and go somewhere else and I was like, I don't know where to go I don't even know where to start

Joni:

I would think like before that you're like, doctors are good. Doctors are all equal. They're all probably about the same, but now it's how do I know I'm getting a good one when I've gotten some ones that I don't really trust?

Brook:

yeah, and I'd never had to find my own doctor before my mom always took me

Joni:

Oh, yeah.

Brook:

I got married at 19. So it was like

Joni:

a baby.

Brook:

yeah.

Joni:

baby.

Brook:

seriously my mom didn't ever like the first doctor, but part of me was like I'm an adult now. I'm going to do it myself, and then I had to be humbled. And I took her recommendation for the next one. It was someone that had helped my aunt and other family members a lot. And so I called his office just left this pleading message of Can you please help me? They called me back and they're like, we can see you come in tomorrow morning I go in I had written everything out and I was like he is going to believe me I wrote down everything I could think of all of my symptoms a timeline everything I come in and I pull it out and I read through the whole thing. He was so kind. He didn't ever cut me off. He just listened to the whole thing. And then he was like let's just do an exam and see. So this is, December of 2014 for a timeline? he said, let's do an exam. He looks in and immediately says, are you wearing a tampon? And I was like, no, I haven't really had periods yet because I've been breastfeeding so much. And he said well, you have a sponge in there. And I said, what's a sponge? And he calls in a nurse. They pull it out. it was crazy. It was like the most intense pressure was instantly gone. The only way I've known how to explain it is, you know, in high school when You wear a tampon all day long because you don't want to go to the bathroom during school And you finally get home and take it out and there's this huge relief. It was like that times three And the smell was intense and horrible and they hurried and zipped it in a bio bag and got it out of the room Sorry, this is the only part that makes me emotional that doctor was an angel he grabbed my hand and he said, you must have something or someone watching out for you because this should have killed you. he's like, get dressed. I'll come back and we'll talk. He leaves the room and it was the weirdest feeling to be told you could have died.

Joni:

Yeah.

Brook:

he was just so kind and so different than what I had experienced.

Joni:

Yeah. I'm glad you had a better experience.

Brook:

Yeah, he sat with me and he got me on a ton of antibiotics and was like, we're gonna get you cleaned out. We're gonna get you better. And at this point, I was still in shock, and then when I left and called my husband, that's when it really hit me. And I was, panicky and just being like, what is happening to me? Am I okay now? And all that kind of stuff. He was pretty mad. That, his wife could have died over negligence.

Joni:

Yeah. Were you by yourself for the appointment then?

Brook:

yeah, I was by myself and I drove home and I remember at night, I just stood over my son and I was just so grateful that I was still alive and could be his mom

Joni:

Yeah, of course.

Brook:

And then we started the process of looking for an attorney. I'm not really one to sue or, it was weird experience, but. It was like, there has to be some sort of, what's the word, justice almost? Or accountability for the way that the hospital and the doctors messed up.

Joni:

Totally.

Brook:

We got an attorney that was a recommendation after we had tried many attorneys and all of them said, call us if she has permanent damage or dies, basically.

Joni:

Oh,

Brook:

Yeah, they did not want to help, but we did find someone that was willing to help. And they're like, Oh, this is totally medical malpractice. And So start compiling all the stuff. It was like a year process of trying to get everything together. And during this time, I was wanting to have another kid. My son was two and a half and I wanted kids close together. And I definitely jumped the gun on that wanting to have another kid. And like, my body was not healed enough. I was still seeing pulmonologists and cardiologists and stomach doctors and trying to get back on top of health and weight and all that. my mental state was declining for sure, the reality of it was starting to sink in and the anxiety of. What happened with the birth and that trauma as well and just the process of doing all the stuff with the lawyers. I again, did not advocate for myself because the lawyers were not getting back to me and I kept reaching out and two law firms working together and they're like we dropped all the stuff off with the other law firm I just kept letting time pass and I kept thinking I should really check up on this But I would wait another month and then check up on it so then I Called one day and was like, hey, we really need an update like what's going on. It's been a year and They started panicking and were like, um, we lost the paperwork. Eh, what? And they're like, we need to compose ourselves and then come in for a meeting.

Joni:

What in the

Brook:

And I was like what is happening? And then the next day, I actually had a miscarriage

Joni:

Oh my gosh.

Brook:

I think I was seven or eight weeks. I was very emotional from that. And we went into our appointment a few days after my miscarriage and they sat us down and we're like, okay, so we compiled all the paperwork and we dropped it off with the other lawyer. the statute of limitation is actually only a year instead of two years, like we thought, and you've passed your year mark now the other law firm claims they never got the paperwork. And the first law firm says they dropped it off, so it was just poof, vanished.

Joni:

Oh my word.

Brook:

So again, I'm just so small, and no one believes me, and I can't advocate for myself,

Joni:

Yeah, and you just had a loss. You really put through the wringer.

Brook:

definitely. I had one friend who came over, and she was like, We are gonna figure this out, we're gonna find you a new lawyer, and you're gonna sue them. And I was just like, I don't wanna go through this process, but we did end up finding a really good lawyer. he closed the case in a couple of months.

Joni:

Oh good.

Brook:

And, I thought that would make me feel better. it didn't. At all.

Joni:

Yeah, the hard thing is it doesn't heal the emotional trauma and the anxiety you have now about trusting. Authority or I don't know if you have that but like

Brook:

Yeah, I do.

Joni:

All these other issues you have to still deal with it doesn't make it go away

Brook:

for sure. And, I really thought that it would go away and it didn't. I even still now deal with some pain of they never knew what they did to me. They'll never know what they did. And that's hard. also, I've gotten to a point where it doesn't matter.

Joni:

Well, I think sharing your story can be very just encouraging to people to like, you truly have to advocate for yourself. Like I am in healthcare. I've been in healthcare for a long time and it's not that I would say like most people aren't malicious. Things happen. People fall through the cracks. People aren't being heard. Like the three and a half to four centimeters. Like I'm in a lot of pain. Can you please admit me? Even though I'm not four centimeters like that dumb little rule. I understand why they have it, but in your specific case, you deserve to be in the hospital getting an epidural before that. And so I just think learning how to advocate for yourself in healthcare is unfortunately something. We all have to learn. Your story really is powerful to be like no you have to keep Even if you feel annoying if there's something really wrong be the squeaky wheel

Brook:

Or find someone

Joni:

totally that's a great point. Yes, and then also that not every provider is created equal

Brook:

Yeah. Definitely.

Joni:

Can we talk a little bit about cause you have four children, right? So you've been pregnant a few times. You had some infertility that you experienced after your first, and then some other like mental health struggles that you had throughout that time. Do you mind telling a few stories from that? Hitting some highlights?

Brook:

yeah, for sure. infertility portion after was really hard because you feel like you should just be grateful that you have a kid and other people that have infertility don't have any. And I felt a lot of guilt for struggling with it.

Joni:

Yeah, that totally makes sense.

Brook:

Yeah, every situation is not created equal, and just because you have one kid doesn't mean you can't be sad about not having another,

Joni:

totally. Well, Also if your family planning goal is to have. two children and you always imagined yourself with two children or four children, it's hard not to have your goal or create the family that you wanted. So there's grief there regardless of whether you have a child or

Brook:

Mm hmm. And I had really felt like it was taken away from me, too. I felt like it was because of the sponge that I, I couldn't have a kid That they had just done all this damage to me. But my doctor was Dr. B, er, C, Dr. C. he's he's amazing.

Joni:

Dr. C.

Brook:

Yes, he was really supportive and he was like we're gonna get you another kid and I had three appointments a month with him. It was crazy he would do blood work and ultrasounds and You know all this stuff every month when I would see blood it was almost like triggering from having a miscarriage Because that was so unexpected for me. and each month that passed it got worse and worse You But I did get pregnant again the end of 2016. I had another, daughter in 2017 during her pregnancy I was very stressed about having another miscarriage. It's very strange the difference between having a baby without ever experiencing that and then having a miscarriage and it just totally changes it. And it's hard to, explain unless you've gone through it, I have found.

Joni:

I hear a lot of people, who've lost in the miscarriage or stillborn, they, Will have just this high anxiety throughout their whole pregnancy. What does this mean? What does this mean? What does this mean? All the time. Cause you're always aware that you're pregnant. This like hypervigilance, I don't know. Is that similar to your experience?

Brook:

and just like every time you go to the bathroom you look for blood, basically.

Joni:

So like several times a day you are expecting to find something. Horrible. You're like on the edge of a cliff for nine months.

Brook:

yeah. And I was a little bit stressed about going through the birthing process again, but it wasn't too bad because I trusted that doctor so much, and he was like, because your son's head was so huge, I won't let this baby's head get that big, and we'll induce you a week early, He just did a lot of things to comfort me and make me feel like it would be okay the experience

Joni:

That's cool.

Brook:

Yeah, so I wasn't too worried about that, but I was really worried about breastfeeding again because the feeling of being trapped started coming back and started being like I'm gonna have to sit here all the time and I just started getting anxiety about the afterbirth more than the birth, which It's funny because the birth was so traumatic, but for me the mental effects after the birth were so much worse.

Joni:

yeah, and longer, like the birth is like a moment, obviously it was a long 20, 30 hours, But then you had months and months of feeling trapped.

Brook:

Yeah, so then when she was born breastfeeding was awful. It was so intensely painful. I had no idea what to do because with my son, there was no pain involved. And it wasn't like nipple pain. It was deep breast tissue pain. And so from the moment she latched on till the moment she stopped, I was gritting my teeth. It was bad. I was dealing with the, postpartum things. I was still dealing with the trauma of what had happened to me Without realizing it. I thought that giving birth again would make it better be fine, but it did not All of that kind of culminated into I couldn't bond with her I didn't want to be around her when she was hungry. I just cringed and get her away from me.

Joni:

That's like real PTSD. You want to avoid the thing that reminds you of all that pain and often with birth trauma that can be the baby. And so it's hard, but it also makes sense.

Brook:

and it was a strange feeling for me because I was so attached to my son, and it felt like me and him against the world, sort of thing. Like, My husband, obviously, he was very involved and helpful and stuff, but he worked, most of the time it was just me and my son. So then this feeling of anger and resentment towards my daughter was hard.

Joni:

oh yeah. After infertility too like, should I have just not had this kid? Was this kid not meant for

Brook:

Yeah. and during the pregnancy, I had just been so grateful, like every time I threw up and every time I was in pain, I was just so grateful because I was pregnant again. And then she was born and I didn't want to be around her. So after three weeks of breastfeeding, I was like, this is bad. Mental health needs to come before, what she eats.

Joni:

Well, Yeah, I mean, if she can eat formula, if you don't attach to your baby, that's going to eventually really impact her and her whole life. So yeah, I agreed. I think moms tend to put their kids first, which is okay, but I think it's good. Like you recognize Oh, my mental health actually impacts my children as well. I need to go take care of myself.

Brook:

Yeah, and it was easy for me to correlate I was having a hard time with pain after that experience because in my mind pain never ends. And, the sitting down and the stress of me being the only one, it was pretty easy for me to be like, breastfeeding is the thing I have to stop. and I felt better that day that I decided I felt so much better for a couple of weeks. And then all these things came back and I realized that I had to find a therapist. I had some serious problems. So I started PTSD and trauma therapy and anxiety and depression, all that. In 2018, I took a break from therapy. I was like, I've done all the work. I can talk about the birth and I'm not freaking out about it. I still, to this day I notice a difference in attachment to my daughter just because of those early days but we're working on it it's getting better. But I thought, I'm fine, I'm cured from anxiety, I did all the work I needed to. And then I had my first panic attack.

Joni:

That's fun.

Brook:

yeah. I had some panicky things, like my heart racing when I would talk about the birth or whatever. But this was like the first one where I found myself under my clothes in my closet. My heart was racing. I couldn't breathe. I felt like my head was going to explode. I was holding my head together. when I finally came off the panic attack, I was so angry at myself. I was like, why am I not cured from anxiety? Why didn't this go away?

Joni:

Sounds like you needed a reframe. That's part of life.

Brook:

I did need a reframe. I needed to Get the work done again and realize that, guess what, you had anxiety your whole life. I didn't realize it because I was able to control it. But the experience with my son taught me, what it's like not to have any control. it opened Pandora's box for me, I guess.

Joni:

It is not uncommon. It is why so many women struggle when they have a kid in a way that they haven't before because it's like you have way more responsibility, your body's changed, your hormones have changed, your role has changed, your relationships have changed, so much happens. It's just a huge hit to the body physically and

Brook:

Mm hmm. Yeah, definitely. shortly after that I got pregnant with my third child. And this pregnancy was very weird. I don't know that I had ever experienced such bad pregnancy anxiety before. at this point, I felt like I was a pro on postpartum depression and anxiety. I'm like, I've been there for years I got this. But the pregnancy was a whole new thing for me. I had such bad intrusive thoughts during this pregnancy.

Joni:

About the baby dying,

Brook:

Know about me dying in childbirth.

Joni:

Oh, Oh, that's fun.

Brook:

was so weird. At Christmas, I was sitting there thinking okay, you have to enjoy this Christmas because it's your last one

Joni:

oh,

Brook:

That at parties. I thought that when I would hang out with my friends. I started writing letters goodbye letters to people

Joni:

oh wow.

Brook:

Yeah, it was intense. I just was convinced that I was going to die I didn't know what to do with that. So towards the end of that pregnancy, I was like, you get your butt back in therapy right now. And I went back to the therapist that I had seen, at first, he helped me a lot for sure.

Joni:

Did you ever get on medication?

Brook:

No, I didn't.

Joni:

you'd probably love

Brook:

I know I have one of my good friends that gets on medication every time she has a baby and does really well with that, and I have family members on medication, but for some reason, I guess part of it is because the doctor's never brought it up to me, but when I stay consistently with the therapy, I'm able to

Joni:

Do you still feel like you're like white knuckling it through a little bit? you're like, okay, I can manage this, but it's still tough. Or is it like, oh, this is much better. I can do this.

Brook:

I'm at a point in my life where it's much better I've had a few panic attacks since then. And I was listening to a podcast one time and a girl said, anxiety is like a backpack I wear. And I wear it every day. It's with me all the time. And sometimes there's a lot of rocks and sometimes it's empty. And that really rung true with me where it's there, but There are some days that I don't even notice it. And there are other days that are heavy, but I, have the tools to get through it. And I just continue to go to my therapist on a regular basis.

Joni:

that's fantastic.

Brook:

yeah.

Joni:

It sounds like you've found a really good fit with your therapist.

Brook:

Yeah. I found a system that works for me. And I was really lucky to have a therapist, a good one, the get go. Because I know a lot of people have a bad experience with that.

Joni:

Yeah, it can be hard to find someone that's a good fit, hopefully not as stark as your OB GYN experience, but people who just like, aren't good fits for you. Cause you do open up so much to them that you want someone that you feel like you can share and be heard

Brook:

Mm

Joni:

dismissed.

Brook:

For me, the way I found him was I read through bios. And What stood out to me and so for me what stood out was that he did PTSD that he did anxiety and that he focuses on self worth a lot and I needed that because I had a lot of self doubt That I can't do this and that no one believes me and all that.

Joni:

That is something I recommend for people if they're looking for a therapist is to read on psychology today their profile and see like are they hitting the things that you want to talk about because if not they're probably great for other people but they may not be great for you if they're talking about eating disorders and you don't have any problem with your body might not be a good fit so yeah i think that's A really good point just before we wrap up, I wanted to ask a few questions about what people could draw from your experience, if that's okay, unless there, is there anything else you want to make sure you add in?

Brook:

Yeah, so real quick. I just wanted my fourth pregnancy. You That one went really well for me. you know, My therapist helped me a lot. Birth was easy. But I count that as my full circle moment for Pregnancy, because with my last three, I went to a different hospital. And every time that I've given birth, the nurses hear about my first story. And with this last one, they were telling me that they're hearing more and more of similar experiences that I had at hospital a and that people are being turned away, people are putting in life threatening situations because of this kind of stuff. We were just talking about that hospital and, how we hope things can be done to fix it. And then they said, so what did you name your daughter? And I said the name and then it went quiet and they were like that's ironic. It was the same name as the hospital. And I didn't realize it until that moment.

Joni:

Oh, wow.

Brook:

even why we chose that name. It happened to be the same. And I realized, that was in the past. I've moved on, I'm safe, I'm okay, I went through a hard thing, and I'm better for it.

Joni:

That's cool that you were able to feel like something's really in your past and doesn't impact Your daily

Brook:

Yeah, it was a huge moment for, exactly for that reason, that it doesn't impact me anymore.

Joni:

That's really neat. what do you feel like helped the most through all of this? I'm sure it's different and different times in your life, but what helped you? Just Little things that you did.

Brook:

The biggest thing for me was every morning taking a shower and getting dressed. That was something I learned after my dark days with my first son because I would never get ready or I'd be in pajamas until the night time and be like, I guess I need a shower. I started making myself first thing in the morning, take a shower, get dressed and ready for the day. And I still continue that now because for my mental health, it gets me in a good place.

Joni:

That's great. Oh, I love that. You also mentioned this analogy of thoughts or like ocean waves. Can you share a little bit about

Brook:

Yes. this was something that my therapist had told me to do. Thoughts they come in like waves or they come in like a train passing by. So your thoughts, if you imagine a wave, it comes in and then it washes away and it can be a really big wave and then it goes away or it can be a really small wave and it can go away. And so just the mindset that even though this is how I'm feeling right now, or this is a thought that I have right now, it'll pass. it also gives me the freedom to Decide how much power I want to give that thought Am I gonna let it wash me over or am I gonna just let it go away? Yeah,

Joni:

Yeah. I've heard this analogy before that you can't decide if a bird lands on your head, but you can decide if it makes a nest there. Having thoughts, that part is actually not in your control fully, but you can decide how much you allow it to you,

Brook:

and it's crazy as soon as you start recognizing That's an anxiety thought it has so much less power they come less often and they don't affect you as much.

Joni:

That's beautiful. I love that.

Brook:

Yeah. There's also I really liked it's called the guest house It's a poem, and it talks about how all emotions are welcome in the house. Some emotions come through, and they destroy the walls. some emotions come like a best friend, and they sit with you and talk. All emotions are welcome, and all emotions, like a guest, leave.

Joni:

I'll have to find that poem. I haven't read that before. I've heard the analogy, but I like that. how do you feel like people best supported you through this?

Brook:

talking with me. I did talk with my mom a lot. I had mentioned before I didn't recognize anxiety and depression. I had a sister in law that pulled me aside one time, and she was like, This was my experience with postpartum depression. This is what it feels like. Call me if you need help. And it clicked in my mind, Oh, this is postpartum depression, or anxiety. that helped a lot, just to have people give part of themselves, without making me open up, made me feel like I'm not alone, I had another friend who couldn't breastfeed with her first, and so with my second, she was a huge advocate for me, and just helping me recognize this was the problem. And I actually have never breastfed again after my second. I made the decision right away and it made things a lot easier for me. And my therapist helped me also not to have any guilt or shame towards myself.

Joni:

That's awesome. I'm glad. I do think the people around you can make such a big difference feeling. Just loved and supported and not alone in it, even though you are physically alone, but mentally you can share the load a little bit. What's your biggest takeaway from this experience? I don't know if that's a good question, but what do you feel like you learned?

Brook:

I learned that giving pieces of myself helps me a lot and it helps other people. I was the first to have a birth and a trauma and a miscarriage and problems with breastfeeding. And then after that I had so many friends and family follow after and I was able to support them and share parts of myself I could see the impact that it helped them and it helped me be like, this was an experience that made me better.

Joni:

Yeah, I love that. What would you tell your younger self?

Brook:

Oh man, be an advocate for yourself. Trust yourself. I tell myself that I made it through on the other side, and that everything was okay, and that these experiences are good for you and to just go with the journey, not fight it so much, and, fight against what's being done to you, definitely, but, Don't get down on yourself why aren't certain things going away? Or, I look in the mirror and I don't recognize myself. It's you're in there

Joni:

Maybe have some more self compassion.

Brook:

yeah,

Joni:

especially if you have this anxious tendency, there's this tendency to want to like, control and fix things and, I don't think we have to have bad things happen to us to learn all the time, but I think everyone has bad things happen and we do have the opportunity to learn. when those happen, it can be really helpful to get some practice in of like, Oh, I can't control everything in my

Brook:

Yeah. And I still fall into it where I try and control everything

Joni:

Oh, for sure. It's a constant life lesson. It's like, Oh, still can't control everything. Thank you so much for sharing your story and life lessons you've pulled from it and just encouraging other people to be advocates for themselves. I appreciate you being vulnerable and sharing it, sharing all

Brook:

Yeah, I guess I would tell people to, that they're not alone. And to not be afraid sometimes other people don't understand what you're going through. And they'll try and give you, advice. And you feel like the advice isn't helpful. But There are things out there, people that do understand, and the more you give of yourself, the more you'll find that are going through the same thing.

Joni:

Yeah, absolutely. That vulnerability can be so powerful being able to connect with people. I love that.

Welcome to the Sad Moms Club. Welcome to the Sad Moms Club. Welcome to the Sad Moms Club.

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Joni Lybbert

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